Prime BJ Penn could beat both of these guys, no?

gono btw said:
Are u sure that them Gracies were winning during BJ´s era?

BJ was only good at subs from the bottom?
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Roger Gracie was the world's best GOAT level grappler from ~2003-2010. There's no successful Gracie today.

BJ was good at subs from the bottom and good from top positions like mount. Those are both useless skillsets in 2018. In 2005, armbars from guard happened all the time. In 2005, fights were finished from mount all the time. Those things don't happen anymore.

In 2018, everyone is good enough to neutralize any bottom submission or top aggression game (except against Khabib). The game is decided in the scrambles. BJ sucks at scrambling.

Grappling skillsets in MMA, just like striking skillsets, have evolved past what BJ did. BJ was amazing what he did. Everything he did amazingly is useless in 2018. It's like having the world's best spear thrower of all time. He's still going to lose to some random dude with an M16.

Grappling and striking skillsets have evolved beyond what BJ was great at.
 
superpunch said:
BJ Penn was good at submissions from the bottom and hurting people from the mount as top control. Both of those skillsets are completely useless in modern MMA grappling. BJ Penn was great for 2005 but his skillset is outdated. Conor isn't a greater grappling talent but he's had much better training than 2005 could offer. 2018 easily fends off a world class 2005 grappling skillset. The fucking Gracie family was winning back then, lmao.
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Yeah... Penn was better at more than that. Can I add the condescending ' Lmao' to make me right?
 
its crazy to think, but prime BJ would've eaten Conor's left hand like a cookie. people think prime BJ was in his Lightweight run around 2009, but it was actually a few years before when he was walking around fat. The BJ that split decisioned GSP and lost to Hughes. He lost both those fights, but I believe that is prime Penn, when he came back from Japan after fighter bigger opponents.
He was dominant at LW, but he was actually better at WW when he was fat.

Fat BJ would have had no issues with Conor. Probably takes his back and submits him in the first.

Against Khabib, Fat BJ would avoid most takedowns and put on a striking clinic, busting him up. He may be fucked if he is gassed and gets taken down, but BJ had some of the most innovative TDD.
 
McGregor is a much better boxer with a harder punch

Khabib is so much stronger than him I can't see how he wouldn't get crushed against the cage for as long as he chose to have it there

They would have been good fights but not sure they would have been favourable for BJ
 
No and look at my username.

Khabib would fucking maul him and bj would have his guard game tested for 25 minutes.
Conor vs prime bj would have been a great fight but bj would get picked apart from afar and lose a Dec IMO.
 
Mob69 said:
Prime BJ possesses one of the best chins in MMA history. Also possesses under-appreciated wrestling. If he takes Conor down he could sub him in a dozen different ways.
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It's a tremendously large if
 
No. The pioneers and legends of the sport deserve respect, but they get way overrated on here sometimes. This sport has evolved and gotten deeper over the past two decades believe it or not. Tony, Khabib, Conor all wreck prime BJ most likely. Several other guys in the current top 10 would have a good shot too. This is like the thread I saw the other day asking how Matt Hughes would do against a prime Johnny Hendricks lol.
 
No, BJ wouldn't be able to handle khabibs pressure and spamming td attempts.

Conor would pick him apart on his feet, but it would be a great scrap until they both fade in the later rounds.
 
Khabib.. I dunno

But yea he would be able to take Conor down
 
superpunch said:
Roger Gracie was the world's best GOAT level grappler from ~2003-2010. There's no successful Gracie today.

BJ was good at subs from the bottom and good from top positions like mount. Those are both useless skillsets in 2018. In 2005, armbars from guard happened all the time. In 2005, fights were finished from mount all the time. Those things don't happen anymore.

In 2018, everyone is good enough to neutralize any bottom submission or top aggression game (except against Khabib). The game is decided in the scrambles. BJ blew chunks at scrambling.

Grappling skillsets in MMA, just like striking skillsets, have evolved past what BJ did. BJ was amazing what he did. Everything he did amazingly is useless in 2018. It's like having the world's best spear thrower of all time. He's still going to lose to some random dude with an M16.

Grappling and striking skillsets have evolved beyond what BJ was great at.
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yeah, but we´re talkin´about MMA/NHB here. Them Gracies were no longer dominant during BJ´s era.

On a sidenote, BJ was good from the bottom, but on top too, since it´s how he finished, IIRC, Gomi for instance.He was pretty quick at takin them backs...

More deeply, a skillset is linked to a fight configuration established by an organization which wants to promote a certain type of 'entertainment' according to its market.

This choice predetermines what kind of move will be effective or not under this fight configuration.

This goes beyond the mere consideration of who evolved or not, as a fighter.

The fight configuration evolves, and the fighters work or cease to work on certain types of techniques.
 
mkt said:
While BJ may try a few TDS and could get a sub, when did he ever follow a wrestling-centered gameplan for an entire fight? Maybe he did, but I don't remember.
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Fitch...until gassing badly in round 3.

BJ's last good performance actually.
 
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