Power Guillotine vs Elbow Up Guillotine

[Drew Foster]

my exact point, thanks and yeah im not trolling just annoying seeing noobs giving bad technique a name now im outta here all you white belts talk your guillotines

one last point notice how marcelo's opponets are trapped inside a V and the bad technique guillotines you can see the whole side of opponet's neck?? that is called a HOLE and allows someone time, it is called bad technique, simple as that, Power guillotine?? ok sure u go learn those

and since you guys think im such a troll when im just trying to help u understand a guillotine u can "say goodnight to the bad guy" LOLOL

Why do you have to be such a dick? I know it was your exact point, that's why I said it. I was trying to agree with you. Do you just assume everyone's being an ass when you read their posts? Because most of the people here are cool.

I don't know what a power guillotine is sir, so take that somewhere else.

Just curious, what do you think of arm-in guillotines? The figure-four grip ones? What about the Jon Jones/prayer grip? The Mendes Bros reverse gable guillotine?

I'm not saying those are more or less good than the "correct" one Marcelo does, but I'd like your take, since you obviously believe there is one best way to do it.

Not being a dick at all, I'm just genuinely curious.

Would Jeff Glover's arm-in guillotine over Robson Moura be a bad guillotine?

 

[Goat Gobbler]

These two variations seem to be the most effective at a high level, both in MMA and no-gi. For the power guillotine, you wrap your arm around their neck completely so that their chin is in the crook of your arm (also known as the front naked choke).

The elbow up guillotine is the one Marcelo Garcia does.

Do you use both? Or do you have a favorite? What are the pros and cons of both?

I'm asking because most people who are very good at the guillotine seem to specialize in one or the other, I can't say I've seen anybody use both regularly.

I use both but prefer the power. they're really similar. One just focuses on actual positioning over just shortcutting with your arm.

 

[VisibleJiuJitsu]

For Christ's sake, you basically said that Kron had whitebelt BJJ because he went for a standard guillotine.

i will only address this because im a huge kron fan, my favorite bjj fighter might i add, kron himself said he did it wrong, he is a fuckin badass and his practical jiu jitsu is light years ahead of most, he was tapping blacks as a purple belt, dude is fucking insane

and drew + ice, i wasnt trying to be a dick i just thought u would want to hear other people's opinions and discuss civil but u jump to calling me a troll... well fuck u both because a troll isnt someone who disagrees with an idea, i just dont like giving bad technique a name, sue me

and ill address the arm in, you really have to be good to get them since your leverage is weaker and it is low %, does it work yes, all the time no, does a proper guillotine work? yes 100% of the time now please dont talk to me anymore because i dont talk nice with rude assholes

fuck it ill adress the prayer grip too, it creates a V when your arm is deep and the leverage from the chopping motion is diminshed, so yeah it's good to seal some holes, should it be go to, no, should u do it if your opponent was good enough to not allow the guillotine then yeah why not, get the win

Why do you have to be such a dick?

because u assumed i was trolling when i was just stating my thoughts on calling a guillotine a marcelotine, i love marcelo but i have always been taught to guillotine like that and i dont think it should be called that because then people get it twisted

and ill be the bigger person, sorry for sounding arrogant but i was talking with good intentions wasnt trying to be a dick

 

[Drew Foster]

i will only address this because im a huge kron fan, my favorite bjj fighter might i add, kron himself said he did it wrong, he is a fuckin badass and his practical jiu jitsu is light years ahead of most, he was tapping blacks as a purple belt, dude is fucking insane

and drew + ice, i wasnt trying to be a dick i just thought u would want to hear other people's opinions and discuss civil but u jump to calling me a troll... well fuck u both

and ill address the arm in, you really have to be good to get them and it is low %, does it work yes, all the time no, does a proper guillotine work? yes 100% of the time now please dont talk to me anymore because i dont talk nice with rude assholes

Honestky you can't be upset people may have thought you were trolling. Most people on this forum aren't do hostile and aggressive right out of the gate.

After I've still been nice you're gonna say I'm rude? All I did was merely suggest the possibility that you were trolling, hardly a terrible offense.

Ice wasn't trying to be rude either. I agree on the arm in comment by the way

 

[Herfavcolor90]

I'm convinced VisibleJiuJitsu's first language isn't English. It's the only possible way he can be such a dick for no reason, due to just not understanding what's being said and the context.

 

[VisibleJiuJitsu]

Honestky you can't be upset people may have thought you were trolling. Most people on this forum aren't do hostile and aggressive right out of the gate.

After I've still been nice you're gonna say I'm rude? All I did was merely suggest the possibility that you were trolling, hardly a terrible offense.

Ice wasn't trying to be rude either. I agree on the arm in comment by the way

i edited i said sorry for being arrogant, nothing personal, but tbh i didnt mean to come off like that

 

[sha]

In these pictures. What prevents the defender from pressing the elbow down or threading it through and breaking the grip?

Because they're getting choked the f' out. This choke works so fast that you barely have time to tap, let alone break the grip.

 

[Drew Foster]

i edited i said sorry for being arrogant, nothing personal, but tbh i didnt mean to come off like that

I don't think you were that arrogant, you obviosly know what you're saying.

I was just trying to give a reason why people might say there is a difference. Westerners, especially Americans, love to name things. So it isn't surprising that there are so many "names" for different grips of guillotines, etc.

All I meant was that when Marcelo was the first person to really finish a lot of people on the big stage of grappling, with the elbow high or "correct" like that...well people are going to come up with little nicknames like "high elbow" or "Marcelotine." It's just how a lot of people are.

I can understand being annoyed, because you're saying, "It's just a guillotine!!!" and you are right.

I was just saying why there is a lot of naming. Marcelo is just so popular too. That's a lot of it also I believe.

 

[sha]

i love marcelo but i have always been taught to guillotine like that and i dont think it should be called that because then people get it twisted

Either you haven't been training that long, or else you had an amazing instructor that was years ahead of everybody else on that front. Because up to very recently, everybody did the guillotine the "wrong" way.

I might be wrong, I'd love to see an example of the high-elbow guillotine in competition before the last couple years (basically before Marcelo made it popular).

 

[VisibleJiuJitsu]

I'm convinced VisibleJiuJitsu's first language isn't English. It's the only possible way he can be such a dick for no reason, due to just not understanding what's being said and the context.

i started being a dick when i started getting called a troll, i think it is disrespectful when im voicing my opinion, yes when reading sometimes someone's context is harder to understand but when people think im trolling i think it is an insult because i dont troll

 

[Drew Foster]

In these pictures. What prevents the defender from pressing the elbow down or threading it through and breaking the grip?

Usually there just isn't enough time. But beyond that, if they are able to press your elbow down, Marcelo teaches to smash their arm down with your outside leg and simply re-lift the elbow. Now their arm is likely trapped by your outside leg since you smashed it down, and then they really have no chance.

 

[VisibleJiuJitsu]

Either you haven't been training that long, or else you had an amazing instructor that was years ahead of everybody else on that front. Because up to very recently, everybody did the guillotine the "wrong" way.

I might be wrong, I'd love to see an example of the high-elbow guillotine in competition before the last couple years (basically before Marcelo made it popular).

i have the best instructor, kron gracie :icon_chee

 

[sha]

i have the best instructor, kron gracie

Well, the rest of us with mere mortals for instructors have been learning the elbow-down guillotine for all these years.

That's why we call the "new" guillotine the Marcelotine, or elbow-up guillotine.

 

[kying418]

VisibileJiuJitsu- who is your instructor?

I would be very surprised if he taught you exactly the way Marcelo guillotine's people. And if he did, where did he learn it?

 

[Drew Foster]

Either you haven't been training that long, or else you had an amazing instructor that was years ahead of everybody else on that front. Because up to very recently, everybody did the guillotine the "wrong" way.

I might be wrong, I'd love to see an example of the high-elbow guillotine in competition before the last couple years (basically before Marcelo made it popular).

I've seen some 06 rolling from Marcelo where he does it and he did it on George Sot and Mike Fowler at the 07 Abu Dhabi. I don't think I ever saw one before that. Shinya Aoki was showing a similar one back around the same time, but I think it wasn't the same. He actually came up with a lot of stuff one his own.

Yea I think you'd be hard pressed to find an example of it, at least at big tournaments.

 

[VisibleJiuJitsu]

I don't think you were that arrogant, you obviosly know what you're saying.

I was just trying to give a reason why people might say there is a difference. Westerners, especially Americans, love to name things. So it isn't surprising that there are so many "names" for different grips of guillotines, etc.

All I meant was that when Marcelo was the first person to really finish a lot of people on the big stage of grappling, with the elbow high or "correct" like that...well people are going to come up with little nicknames like "high elbow" or "Marcelotine." It's just how a lot of people are.

I can understand being annoyed, because you're saying, "It's just a guillotine!!!" and you are right.

I was just saying why there is a lot of naming. Marcelo is just so popular too. That's a lot of it also I believe.

i think i had a misunderstanding with you, you are actually respectful person again i am sorry, nothing personal

 

[Drew Foster]

VisibileJiuJitsu- who is your instructor?

I would be very surprised if he taught you exactly the way Marcelo guillotine's people. And if he did, where did he learn it?

I found it very interesting that Kron did not lift the elbow on any of his 3 guillotines if he taught it to VisibleJiuJitsu and says it is the correct way. When Kron finished Jason Manly and Claudio Calasans, he had the classic "old school" finish.

Visible, did Kron ever mention this? Then again, they both tapped so quick I doubt he had time to lift the elbow.

 

[VisibleJiuJitsu]

VisibileJiuJitsu- who is your instructor?

I would be very surprised if he taught you exactly the way Marcelo guillotine's people. And if he did, where did he learn it?

kron and he learned from all the instructor's at rickson academy and even his dad, also marcelo is so good he wasnt able to get it perfect against him

 

[VisibleJiuJitsu]

I found it very interesting that Kron did not lift the elbow on any of his 3 guillotines if he taught it to VisibleJiuJitsu and says it is the correct way. When Kron finished Jason Manly and Claudio Calasans, he had the classic "old school" finish.

Visible, did Kron ever mention this? Then again, they both tapped so quick I doubt he had time to lift the elbow.

after he returned to the academy from adcc 2009 he adressed that he knew he didnt do the guillotine correct because marcelo was giving him a very strong defense and good pressure

and kron is very good at improvising, just like his choke against durihno

 

[kying418]

kron and he learned from all the instructor's at rickson academy and even his dad, also marcelo is so good he wasnt able to get it perfect against him

So Kron, Rickson, and Rickson's instructors all teach the guillotine with the high elbow lift exactly like Marcelo?

Seems odd, as I have never seen any of them use it in competition..but I guess I will take your word for it.

Maybe Marcelo got the move from Kron and Rickson instead.

BTW- despite what Kron tells you, I'm willing to bet $100 that there is no verifiable evidence that Rickson or any of his instructors ever taught a high elbow lift guillotine with a shallow grip, where your wrist bone directly attacks the Adam's Apple...like how Marcelo does it.

If you can show me proof, that this happened prior to 2007 (right about when Marcelo started doing it), then I will be happy to pay up.