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Power Guillotine vs Elbow Up Guillotine

I'm not saying Marcelo invented it. But I think it's laughable to think that Rickson did or ever taught it many years back.
 
kying418 said:
I'm not saying Marcelo invented it. But I think it's laughable to think that Rickson did or ever taught it many years back.
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so how was it taught in the 90s smart guy? it has always been the same and rolls probably taught him, rickson is one of the greatest and u think it is laughable, gimme a break
 
Exactly- I have never seen it taught in the 90's.

In fact, even today, I bet less than 10% of instructors teach it Marcelo's style.

And of those 10%, I bet 90% of them got it from Marcelo.

Hey, I'm not disputing your facts- show me some proof, and it will be the easiest $100 you have ever made.
 
Heck, if you can show proof it was taught in the 90's, I will give you $150.
 
VisibleJiuJitsu said:
so how was it taught in the 90s smart guy? it has always been the same and rolls probably taught him, rickson is one of the greatest and u think it is laughable, gimme a break
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I learned guillotines directly from Renzo in 2000.

He never taught the elbow lift or the shallow grip.

Guess Renzo never paid attention to his cousins during training?
 
It's a Marcelotine just like the Gable grip, Kimura, Shultz ride, etc. It's an homage. A sign of respect to someone who's undoubtedly earned it. You never hear a move named after a guy who isn't undeniably a legend, signature moves not withstanding.
 
kying418 said:
I learned guillotines directly from Renzo in 2000.

He never taught the elbow lift or the shallow grip.

Guess Renzo never paid attention to his cousins during training?
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i find it hard to believe the guillotine is less than a decade old but yeah im gonna now study the guillotine and we will see

please explain how he taught
 
VisibleJiuJitsu said:
i find it hard to believe the guillotine is less than a decade old but yeah im gonna now study the guillotine and we will see

please explain how he taught
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I promise you won't find anyone teaching the high-elbow that far back. Renzo teaches the arm-in guillotine a lot, and I'm assuming that's what he would have taught in 2000. I'd like to know as well.

Kying will pay you too if you find anything, but I doubt you will. Good luck though.
 
Drew Foster said:
I promise you won't find anyone teaching the high-elbow that far back. Renzo teaches the arm-in guillotine a lot, and I'm assuming that's what he would have taught in 2000. I'd like to know as well.

Kying will pay you too if you find anything, but I doubt you will. Good luck though.
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ok this is pretty damn close and vid is definitely pre 2000

Judo - Hadaka Jime - YouTube

[YT]5JQhHvwuM2o[/YT]

start about 40 secs, he flares elbows and puts weight on his back, actually some cool chokes in this vid, whole thing is worth a watch, i still want to hear how renzo taught in 2000
 
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ok well explain how it's taught by renzo in 2000, and the vid by rorion the fundamentals are the same, marcelo exaggerates the elbows compared to it but looks the same @ 2:52 looks like marcelotine, well maybe ill call it roriotine

looks the same to me, he gets the forearm over the shoulders and elbows are pointing up

and to woooo's point, ok ur right marcelo does do em well so if kimura gets a lock sure then, call it a marcelotine in his honor but i still dont think he created, rorion proved it predates his guillotine success
 
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VisibleJiuJitsu said:
ok well explain how it's taught by renzo in 2000, and the vid by rorion the fundamentals are the same, marcelo exaggerates the elbows compared to it but looks the same @ 2:52 looks like marcelotine, well maybe ill call it roriotine

looks the same to me, he gets the forearm over the shoulders and elbows are pointing up

and to woooo's point, ok ur right marcelo does do em well so if kimura gets a lock sure then, call it a marcelotine in his honor but i still dont think he created, rorion proved it predates his guillotine success
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Of course you wouldnt call it something new in someone's honor just because they are good at it.

However, if he does the kimura in a unique manner, that nobody else does it, then I suppose others can call it whatever they want.

Incidentally, Marcelo doesnt call his style of guillotine anything other than the guillotine.
 
kying418 said:
Of course you wouldnt call it something new in someone's honor just because they are good at it.

However, if he does the kimura in a unique manner, that nobody else does it, then I suppose others can call it whatever they want.

Incidentally, Marcelo doesnt call his style of guillotine anything other than the guillotine.
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well a kimura is no different than ude garame but he did it to helio so hence kimura
 
VisibleJiuJitsu said:
i like rorion's demonstration is better and will u explain the difference as well between rorion's fundamentals vs marcelo's? what am i missing?
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Holy crap, I just took 10 minutes to write all the differences, and my computer refreshed and erased it.

Now I'm too lazy to go in detail (it's 3:45 am here).

- Comparing the two guillotines, the choking hands position in relation to the opponent is different

- The hand that you grab the choking hand with is also in different positions

- The elbow positioning is different on both the choking and non choking hand

- During the squeeze the position of the choking hand and the direction of the squeeze is different.

Side story- I had lunch with Marcelo and two other BJJ black belt world champions in 2009. Marcelo had to explain to them in detail what he was doing with his elbow positioning- they had no clue about this type of guillotine.
 
So if you dont know the details of what Marcelo's guillotine is, how can you say and argue that it is simply a guillotine done correctly?
 
kying418 said:
So if you dont know the details of what Marcelo's guillotine is, how can you say and argue that it is simply a guillotine done correctly?
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i want to hear your view as my view on it disagrees, check previous pages for my take on the "marcelotine"
 
kying418 said:
Holy crap, I just took 10 minutes to write all the differences, and my computer refreshed and erased it.

Now I'm too lazy to go in detail (it's 3:45 am here).

- Comparing the two guillotines, the choking hands position in relation to the opponent is different

- The hand that you grab the choking hand with is also in different positions

- The elbow positioning is different on both the choking and non choking hand

- During the squeeze the position of the choking hand and the direction of the squeeze is different.

Side story- I had lunch with Marcelo and two other BJJ black belt world champions in 2009. Marcelo had to explain to them in detail what he was doing with his elbow positioning- they had no clue about this type of guillotine.
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ok ur right with these details as they obviously arent identical but my point is marcelo is creating the V and lifting while rorion creates the V and stretches opponent, in the end you seal off the neck and force them into the V, like pulling head down in a triangle, many people learn guillotine in a way where power is needed to make up for bad positioning

rorion creates V and forces neck to get squeezed just like marcelo, i dunno to me it's the same but u r right application differs, marcelo does a standing guillotine in guard basically, no?

and i am probably getting way into this because it is my favorite sub, i love lifting people off their feet when done properly, takes literally no effort, love this sub
 
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