Opinion POLL: Whose political philosophies more closely resemble 1930's Nazism?

[grimballer]

-State monopolies to help rearm and prevent total economic collapse because Germany refused to further devalue or float their currency
-SDP were clearly socialist, if you want actual Marxists, it's the KDP at that time.
-Nope, conservatives did not want to preserve the status quo, they wanted to rearm and were every bit as revanchist and antisemetic for the most part.
-You mean they opposed the current ruling class because they became the new ruling class? Hence the rampant bribery and corruption of the Nazi Party to maintain loyalty. And the Nazis were hardly a workers party, they created wage ceilings that caused issues and had the backing of very rich industrialists.
-This stuff existed in Germany for decades, for fuck's sake, the framework was created by that flagrant socialist Bismarck lol. I'd point out how Hitler didn't expand most of these programs and even curtailed some of the big ones (work projects), but you clearly have no interest in actual history or the work of credible historians on this subject.

So you're telling met the SDP were Marxists? Don't get your main thrust here, again, show me all these respected historians who argue that Nazis were left wing. You aren't going to find them.

- so state run economy is your definition of far right policy?

- spd:

can be traced back to the 1860s, and for much of the 20th and 21st centuries it has represented the centre-left in German politics. Nevertheless from 1891 to 1959 the Party at least theoretically espoused Marxism

- conservatives at that time opposed Nazis as well cause they were too extreme, but not as extreme as communists

- Nazis opposed capitalism, bourgeoisie and plutocracy. They saw themselves as proletarian nation. Just cause they weren’t full blown Marxists doesn’t mean they weren’t socialists.

- all those things were provided by nsv and many were their initiative. You’re basically arguing that providing social programs and social assistance is somehow not socialist, which is absurd.

you’re basically ignoring history and historical context and just call Nazis “right wing” cause you don’t like the fact they were socialists

 

[Philo-Publius]

Jesus. You mean to tell me that China and North Korea are democracies because their official names say so?!

You're so full of shit. Of course I didn't say that. People who actually lived it, know exactly what it was. You don't have a clue.

Although, North Korea is a perfect example of what "Democratic Socialists" inevitably become.

Let me ask this. Why were Nazis not fsr right? How were they so different from the far right/conservatives of 1930s Germany? Who again, put them in power.

"far right."

 

[errol ansen]

Its obviously Trump, but the Dems are terrible as well. Getting the Greens kicked off ballots to limit opponents or avoid splitting votes and now twitter and other social media hiding news stories on Biden's boy.

Incredible that anyone could actually be shameless enough to seriously proffer this question.

Nazism:

• Nationalism
• Anti-communism/anti-Marxism (violently opposed both forms of socialism: social democracy and communism)
• Rigid party loyalty, enabling of political corruption
• "Golden years" fetishization of the past
• Anti-globalism
• Charismatic leadership
• Opposition to immigrants
• Hostility to the political interests of ethnic and racial minorities
• Close proximity to industrial and corporate power
• Opposition to labor unions

 

[avenue94]

First off I never called the SPD Marxists although that wouldn't be entirely false either:


Second, I was answering the question of why Nazis were fighting or brawling with socialists in the street and there isn't anything incorrect about what I said.

Third im not here telling you the Nazis are left or right, as a matter of fact I haven't made any commentary whatsoever in that regard but let's get into that since you bring it up.

Let me ask you a question, what makes the Nazis Right-wing vs the Marxists that are left wing. Where are these historians making this divide, what are the parameters?

The core dedication to revanchism in particular in my book. You aren't gonna find many credible historians arguing Nazis are left wing for various reasons.

 

[avenue94]

- so state run economy is your definition of far right policy?

- spd:

- conservatives at that time opposed Nazis as well cause they were too extreme, but not as extreme as communists

- Nazis opposed capitalism, bourgeoisie and plutocracy. They saw themselves as proletarian nation. Just cause they weren’t full blown Marxists doesn’t mean they weren’t socialists.

- all those things were provided by nsv and many were their initiative. You’re basically arguing that providing social programs and social assistance is somehow not socialist, which is absurd.

you’re basically ignoring history and historical context and just call Nazis “right wing” cause you don’t like the fact they were socialists

Any economy is going to have state control to some extent. In the context of the 1930s Europe, yeah, Germany's economy is tethered to conservatism. See how most of the Nazi decisionmakers when it came to the economy had traditional conservative backgrounds.

You're so full of shit. Of course I didn't say that. People who actually lived it, know exactly what it was. You don't have a clue.

Although, North Korea is a perfect example of what "Democratic Socialists" inevitably become.

"far right."

So you don't wanna answer why you think Nazis weren't far right? Cool. Lemme know when you find some good historical work arguing your silly stance.

 

[IamStryker]

The one that has thugs in the streets demanding compliance. Obviously.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

The core dedication to revanchism in particular in my book. You aren't gonna find many credible historians arguing Nazis are left wing for various reasons.

So you basically didn't read a word I wrote.

 

[avenue94]

So you basically didn't read a word I wrote.

which part? I semi-answered the historical part and I answered what I think was the defining tenet of the Nazi Party that aligns them with the right in 30s Germany.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

which part? I semi-answered the historical part and I answered what I think was the defining tenet of the Nazi Party that aligns them with the right in 30s Germany.

Let me ask you a question, what makes the Nazis Right-wing vs the Marxists that are left wing. Where are these historians making this divide, what are the parameters?

 

[avenue94]

I wouldn't say it's necessarily a divide as no regime runs 100 percent ideological consistency and fascism is semi-contradictory. I think the better way to look at it is who did the Nazis align with more in their positions and policies. And to loop back, the revanchism is a very clearly continuation of German conservatism. You aren't going to find a lot of German socialists at that time arguing European hegemony as the nation's first priority.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

I wouldn't say it's necessarily a divide as no regime runs 100 percent ideological consistency and fascism is semi-contradictory. I think the better way to look at it is who did the Nazis align with more in their positions and policies. And to loop back, the revanchism is a very clearly continuation of German conservatism. You aren't going to find a lot of German socialists at that time arguing European hegemony as the nation's first priority.

Ok let me rephrase the question since we aren't really making any progress here. I will ask 3 variations so I can hopefully get something out of it. Don't feel obligated to answer all of them just what ever you think you can answer best.



1)Why wouldn't any Historian consider a Marxist a right winger.
2)Why wouldn't any historian consider a Nazi a left winger.

 

[James Bomb]

They named themselves the National Socialist Party, and you don't think they viewed themselves as Socialist?

The NAZI's were absolutely a Socialist regime, and denying that is the real ignorance.

I know that you're a 1 watt bulb, but this thread is a fucking total embarrassment for you guys.

"real ignorance" lol....

 

[avenue94]

Ok let me rephrase the question since we aren't really making any progress here. I will ask 3 variations so I can hopefully get something out of it. Don't feel obligated to answer all of them just what ever you think you can answer best.



1)Why wouldn't any Historian consider a Marxist a right winger.
2)Why wouldn't any historian consider a Nazi a left winger.

1. Ah, got what you're asking. Some will, some won't, a lot of them is going to depend on how they weigh rhetoric versus actual governance since those diverge a lot. And comparing Marxists to other political actors in that country/era since on some level right/left is going to be contextual.
2. The departure from work creation, rearmament at the expense of economic stimulus, revaunchism, economic policymakers being conservatives, etc.

 

[HELLHAMMER842]

Incredible that anyone could actually be shameless enough to seriously proffer this question.

Nazism:

• Nationalism
• Anti-communism/anti-Marxism (violently opposed both forms of socialism: social democracy and communism)
• Rigid party loyalty, enabling of political corruption
• "Golden years" fetishization of the past
• Anti-globalism
• Charismatic leadership
• Opposition to immigrants
• Hostility to the political interests of ethnic and racial minorities
• Close proximity to industrial and corporate power
• Opposition to labor unions

So basically it's the Republican party

 

[Trotsky]

So basically it's the Republican party

I think it's beyond even remote argument that the 2020 Republican Party is the closest to Nazism that any major American party has ever been. Of course, that doesn't mean they're "literally Nazis" or whatever, but it does mean that they are the closest to them that we've ever seen by pretty much every ideological, political, and historical metric.

They've always had the nationalist business party status locked up, but the Trump era has completely taken the party into new terrain in terms of their complete disregard for the law, for political norms, and for the fiduciary responsibilities of political office.

 

[Philo-Publius]

So you don't wanna answer why you think Nazis weren't far right? Cool. Lemme know when you find some good historical work arguing your silly stance.

You type much and say nothing. It's all outlined in the OP. Things the far left preaches, and their tactics to silence opposition, are right in line with the tactics and empty promises of the NAZI party. It's amazingly happening in plain daylight, just as it did in the 1930's.

 

[Wet Blanket]

They named themselves the National Socialist Party, and you don't think they viewed themselves as Socialist?

The NAZI's were absolutely a Socialist regime, and denying that is the real ignorance.

Aren't you embarrassed making posts like this?

You are proving you dont know what you are talking about again....

 

[avenue94]

You type much and say nothing. It's all outlined in the OP. Things the far left preaches, and their tactics to silence opposition, are right in line with the tactics and empty promises of the NAZI party. It's amazingly happening in plain daylight, just as it did in the 1930's.

So you're trying to tell us that revaunchism, which is the defining tenet of the Nazi Party in the 1930s, is a socialist position rather than a clear continuation of decades of German conservatism? lol ok.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

The similarities I see between National Socialism and the Democratic Party of the US are:

• Both were registered parties
• They both had politicians
• Both had people voting for them
• I guess both oppose smoking
• A suspicious amount of Vegans and Vegetarians in the democratic ranks. HITLER was a Vegetarian.

The differences:

• The Nazis believed in homogeneity. American liberals/democrats/BLM, believe in diversity.
• The Nazis absolutely despised Jews. Large part of the American left is Jewish. Look at the Supreme Court: Ginsburg, Breyer, Kagan. And who did Obama appoint? Garland.
• The Nazis detested Marxism. A significant faction of the American Left is openly Marxist.

To be fair to TS, I understand a case can be made about similar TACTICS, even if their ideologies are diametrically opposed. The Nazis relied on mob intimidation, he probably thinks there is a similarity between SA people and BLM/Antifa protesters. However the comparison fails in degree.
There are certainly some possible terrorists among any movement that will kill political opponents but the SA was an organization dedicated to murdering people. BLM/Antifa are not true organizations and do not have death squads killing people.
During the Kristallnacht the SA killed 91 people. I'm still waiting for the night when Antifa kills 91 Trump supporters(Oh, certainly it wouldn't happen because they have guns!).

 

[Limbo Pete]

Aren't you embarrassed making posts like this?

You are proving you dont know what you are talking about again....

He has a history of posting stuff that he doesn't understand lol