Petition: Arrest Netanyahu for war crimes when he comes to London

[Muay o Muay]

First of all, Hamas has reached up to Jerusalem with its' rockets, that's more than half of the country under Rocket threat.
Secondly, many of them do fall, especially during barrages.
And thirdly, the mere notion that you are waiving away the fact that the population has to live under constant rocket fire shows your total bias on this. If you would've had to send your kids to a school under constant rocket fire, stop your life every day running for the closest shelter or live in a place under constant threat of terrorists invasion by hundreds of underground tunnels, you'd be singing a different tune.
It's all well and nice, from the safety of your ivory tower.

I dont deny that its terrible for people to live under constant threat and obviously if i lived in Israel under that threat i may well sing a different tune, like you would if you were living under what is arguably (looking at casualty stats) a more real threat in Gaza. Unlike you though i have no bias or

 

[Muay o Muay]

..(phone is playing up so cant edit) I try to look at the situation objectively and imo the actions and tactics of the IDF were questionable, particuarly around heavy shelling and use of mortars around civilian sites and yes Hamas used disgraceful tactics as well but Israel (and potentially Netenyahu) as an ally and 'western' nation should be held to a higher level and accountability.

 

[dannialn]

I dont deny that its terrible for people to live under constant threat and obviously if i lived in Israel under that threat i may well sing a different tune, like you would if you were living under what is arguably (looking at casualty stats) a more real threat in Gaza. Unlike you though i have no bias or

Had I lived in Gaza, I would've hated on Israel no doubt, but I would've hated hamas even more for causing this whole situation. Before Hamas Israel had never executed vast operations in the Gaza, life was much better, there was no blockade and Israel had even removed all of its' settlements from the strip.
To shift the blame for this upon Israel is either incredibly biased or just blindness.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I just signed it.

Nevermind the fact that I'm in the USA. Just proving the point that the 'Only UK residents' requirement for the petition is bullshit.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Had I lived in Gaza, I would've hated on Israel no doubt, but I would've hated hamas even more for causing this whole situation. Before Hamas Israel had never executed vast operations in the Gaza, life was much better, there was no blockade and Israel had even removed all of its' settlements from the strip.
To shift the blame for this upon Israel is either incredibly biased or just blindness.

You could go back a century with tit for tat arguements over who's fault it is, my point was that imo the response was disproportionate and potentially Netanyahu should be held accountable.

 

[dannialn]

..(phone is playing up so cant edit) I try to look at the situation objectively and imo the actions and tactics of the IDF were questionable, particuarly around heavy shelling and use of mortars around civilian sites and yes Hamas used disgraceful tactics as well but Israel (and potentially Netenyahu) as an ally and 'western' nation should be held to a higher level and accountability.

There were also many reports by various international military experts claiming the opposite. Israel lost almost 70 soldiers trying to minimize civilian casualties. I'm not saying the IDF are saints, just that we shouldn't forget who the bad guys are and upon whom this whole thing was forced.
Furthermore, I have really big doubts about the whole 'western standard' here. If an entity elected and supported by Mexicans had started bombing southern US cities and airports, I can only imagine the magnitude of shitstorm that would bestow upon them, it would't be pretty.

 

[dannialn]

You could go back a century with tit for tat arguements over who's fault it is, my point was that imo the response was disproportionate and potentially Netanyahu should be held accountable.

Hamas didn't manifest itself from nothing, and 2005 is not some ancient history to remember if you're a Gazan citizen. This is not about tit for tat, this is about reality.
To put simply, if Hamas were to stop firing, Israel wouldn't invade and no body would get killed, as simple as that.

 

[Muay o Muay]

There were also many reports by various international military experts claiming the opposite. Israel lost almost 70 soldiers trying to minimize civilian casualties. I'm not saying the IDF are saints, just that we shouldn't forget who the bad guys are and upon whom this whole things was forced.
Furthermore, I have really big doubts about the whole 'western standard' here. If an entity elected and supported by Mexicans had started bombing southern US cities and airports, I can only imagine the magnitude of shitstorm that would bestow upon them, it would't be pretty.

Oh i wont deny there is a huge amount of hypocracy in the west, as i said if we actually adhered to our own 'standards' Bush and Blair and im sure many others should be standing trial.

 

[Luger]

Thread is retarded; TS is retarded.

Great contribution to this thread, like most of your posts.
Very informative and helpful.

I like your avatar, though.
Lay Lady Lay was brilliant on that album. Written by a Jew, the ones that I totally hate, according to some posters here.
The original was not too great, though.

Edit: The Fall is better.

 

[Luger]

Before Hamas Israel had never executed vast operations in the Gaza, life was much better, there was no blockade and Israel had even removed all of its' settlements from the strip.

Are you seriously saying that before Hamas that there were no vast operations in Gaza by Israel?
Hamas was founded in 1988, a year after a huge struggle against illegal settlements and there had been many incidents before Hamas.

The illegal settlements in Gaza started long before Hamas ever existed.

 

[JohnnyTowers]

"Bad Ass" Benjamin "The Shakedown" Netanyahu is untouchable. Not only one of the greatest world leaders in terms of making sure that his country comes first and foremost, but his intelligence level is off the charts. He would kill Khalid Mashal with his bear hands if they encountered one another face to face. I would bet the farm on it. And Luger, let's not pretend hamas is the only terror org operating outta palestine

 

[Luger]

And Luger, let's not pretend hamas is the only terror org operating outta palestine

I was just responding to dannialn's statements, as they are not true.
So I specified.

Not that I would agree with you that when a Palestine org fights back, it is a terror org.

 

[lfd0311]

The ironic part about the whole American skewed paradigm of the reality of Israel is that there is a far higher level of negative press/opinion about the lawless, thug actions in ISRAEL ITSELF than there is here in the United States.

Basically, the brain dead here in the US report the same two nonsensical talking points about the situation:

1. "Israel has a right to defend itself!" - Complete bullshit when you consider the constant and encroaching "settlements" where Israelis are stealing land - with the protection and blessing of the Israeli government.

2. "You oppose Israel because you're anti-Semitic" - first, just wrong because all the people of Middle Eastern descent are Semitic by definition - Jews and Arabs. But that's a technicality. FAR more important is the inability of small-minded simpletons to differentiate between dislike and disapproval of a government's actions (in this case Israel's, of course) and "hating" the people of the nation (Jews) because of their belief in a certain set of fairy tales.. I'm sorry, religion. If you can't see the difference there, sorry about your ignorance.

You've never been to Israel, have you?

 

[dannialn]

Are you seriously saying that before Hamas that there were no vast operations in Gaza by Israel?
Hamas was founded in 1988, a year after a huge struggle against illegal settlements and there had been many incidents before Hamas.

The illegal settlements in Gaza started long before Hamas ever existed.

I was referring to military operations, obviously, not settlements(how do you even make the connection "operation=settlement"?).

And even if you want to talk about settlements, there are no Israeli settlements in the Gaza strip for a decade already, so that point is also moot.

 

[Luger]

I was referring to military operations, obviously, not settlements(how do you even make the connection "operation=settlement"?).

And even if you want to talk about settlements, there are no Israeli settlements in the Gaza strip for a decade already, so that point is also moot.

It is an illegal operation, based on the military. They were and are often basically military outposts.
Also, they break more than one international contract.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

What about Obama's peace prize?

 

[JohnnyTowers]

Not that I would agree with you that when a Palestine org fights back, it is a terror org.

Israel's retaliation is in response to years of accumulated terrorist attacks from Palestinian terrorist groups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euF6-tUbdJs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Luger]

Israel's retaliation is in response to years of accumulated terrorist attacks from Palestinian terrorist groups.

According to you?
Even if your statement is true (I would not agree with it), do you agree with phosphorus bombs (war crimes), illegal settlements, targeting civilians...?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Plenty of retaliation against the ANC terrorists at one time.

 

[2DUM2TAP]

Can I start one for George W. & Dick Cheney?