Pepper spray, OC spray, capsicum spray, mace etc.

[SandisLL]

When I'm using OC I don't want it to be a surprise in my niche most of the time. I'm typically going to be delivering verbal warnings. Again, my niche isn't the same as everyone else's but that's the point. It's hard to make these sorts blanket statements.

Everyone most likely is posting from his experience and ..... there nothing wrong because ppl does have different life experience had did / are doing different jobs.

I had life exp aka like hood & da tech street and jobs not like security guard, bouncer or in police. So different flowcharts what stuff is expected from you to be done and so on.

 

[SandisLL]

Knives are IMO, oftentimes overrated as defensive tools. They are also sometimes criminalized and subject to poor optics. I think there's a place for them, but they are in no way a substitute for OC. ....

I might partially agree for example about criminization and also ppl usually aren't using them properly as deterrent tool nor also are using them properly as attack tool.

It is because usually when someone does have knife or knifes it is assumed that this will be No1 tool and there majority of attacks will be some from 5-8 most well known stabbing attacks.
What if opponent will decide to use something like dirty KB etc and will not think that knife is his major tool No1 and will use knife also to inflict very deep cuts not only attempt to stab?

Knife isn't preferable SD tool ofc, however if you don't have anything else, it might be additional tool to use...

If you will need to attempt to save life, you will get forced to decide serious things.

For example usually is excepted that with chair most likely first attempt will be to hit head vs opponent in standup position.
What if you will kick chair in order to hit his legs or at least to block for a time his attack line ?
What will happen if you will start beat with bat, armature rod, hammer etc not head but guard and legs in order to slowly wear him " dry " before to start risk more ?

 

[Adamant]

My new can of FOX has an expiration date of September 2028. I'm happy with that.

 

[Safton]

Everyone most likely is posting from his experience and ..... there nothing wrong because ppl does have different life experience had did / are doing different jobs.

I had life exp aka like hood & da tech street and jobs not like security guard, bouncer or in police. So different flowcharts what stuff is expected from you to be done and so on.

That's more or less my point. You can't make blanket statements about the only proper usage of OC because peoples' use cases are different.

I might partially agree for example about criminization and also ppl usually aren't using them properly as deterrent tool nor also are using them properly as attack tool.

If you're using a knife as an "attack tool" you're probably failing at self-defense, but succeeding at murder.

It is because usually when someone does have knife or knifes it is assumed that this will be No1 tool and there majority of attacks will be some from 5-8 most well known stabbing attacks.
What if opponent will decide to use something like dirty KB etc and will not think that knife is his major tool No1 and will use knife also to inflict very deep cuts not only attempt to stab?

Cuts often aren't immediately disabling, especially if the knife doesn't have a lot of belly or good edge geometry or isn't wielded well. Stabs are often preferred. Also you'd have to be able to articulate why you escalated an encounter involving "kickboxing" to one involving the threat of death/grievous bodily harm via a knife.

Knife isn't preferable SD tool ofc, however if you don't have anything else, it might be additional tool to use...

If you will need to attempt to save life, you will get forced to decide serious things.

I carry a knife all the time when I leave the house. I agree that it's a nice tool to have at one's disposal and I think there's a narrow set of circumstances where they make sense for self-defense -- primarily as a "get the fuck off me" tool when you're already getting messed up.

I'm just saying as Plan A... they leave something to be desired compared to other options.

For example usually is excepted that with chair most likely first attempt will be to hit head vs opponent in standup position.
What if you will kick chair in order to hit his legs or at least to block for a time his attack line ?
What will happen if you will start beat with bat, armature rod, hammer etc not head but guard and legs in order to slowly wear him " dry " before to start risk more ?

Again, no idea what you're saying here.

 

[SandisLL]

That's more or less my point. You can't make blanket statements about the only proper usage of OC because peoples' use cases are different.




If you're using a knife as an "attack tool" you're probably failing at self-defense, but succeeding at murder.






Again, no idea what you're saying here.

I long ago had get this.
Go to gym and place chair used in coffee/ bars on the ring and ask guys to kick this item in order to make such stuff to hit your legs. Will be more worth than 20000 hours in internet.

 

[SandisLL]

That's more or less my point. You can't make blanket statements about the only proper usage of OC because peoples' use cases are different.




If you're using a knife as an "attack tool" you're probably failing at self-defense, but succeeding at murder.




Cuts often aren't immediately disabling.

Why not if job should be done ? I hope you maybe have sense what stuff means to get job done....real life.
.
BTW I agree that cuts usually aren't fast solution for a reason they are called in some jargon zamochit and this means to make opponent to die due to blood loss.. real life..

 

[Safton]

I long ago had get this.
Go to gym and place chair used in coffee/ bars on the ring and ask guys to kick this item in order to make such stuff to hit your legs. Will be more worth than 20000 hours in internet.

...why?

 

[Safton]

Why not if job should be done ? I hope you maybe have sense what stuff means to get job done....real life.
.
BTW I agree that cuts usually aren't fast solution for a reason they are called in some jargon zamochit and this means to make opponent to die due to blood loss.. real life..

Again, no idea what you're saying with that first bit. What job? Real life what? I feel like there's a language barrier here.

Stabs are way more effective at reaching vital organs and achieving hemorrhagic shock than cuts, which with concealable-sized knives are typically superficial in nature. The lethality of thrusts versus cuts in debates of edged weapons has been well-established since, like, the 1500s. The difference is that back then the guys in favor of cutting were using things like backswords and broadswords and whatnot and had way more of a leg to stand on as a result.

 

[SandisLL]

...why?

In order to get some sense.

 

[SandisLL]

Again, no idea what you're saying with that first bit. What job? Real life what? I feel like there's a language barrier here.

Stabs are way more effective at reaching vital organs and achieving hemorrhagic shock than cuts, which with concealable-sized knives are typically superficial in nature. The lethality of thrusts versus cuts in debates of edged weapons has been well-established since, like, the 1500s. The difference is that back then the guys in favor of cutting were using things like backswords and broadswords and whatnot and had way more of a leg to stand on as a result.

Yes stabs are more effective for fast term effects I agree. While ppl usually are drilled with flowchart that opponent will use knife with flowchart that he doesn't have other tools to be used for combined attack.

Especially if stab is combined with stuff done after this automatically. We do know if you do know in mindset this...reality.

 

[SandisLL]

Again, no idea what you're saying with that first bit. What job? Real life what? I feel like there's a language barrier here.

Stabs are way more effective at reaching vital organs and achieving hemorrhagic shock than cuts, which with concealable-sized knives are typically superficial in nature. The lethality of thrusts versus cuts in debates of edged weapons has been well-established since, like, the 1500s. The difference is that back then the guys in favor of cutting were using things like backswords and broadswords and whatnot and had way more of a leg to stand on as a result.

Stabs are on paper more efective while ppl more are drilled against most common 5 - 8 attacks. Nothing wrong here of course this should be done.
While imagine what stuff opponent using cutting movements with 3 inch blade might do with your temple, eyes, neck?
Nope, I don't sell SD courses and do not have intent to have yt type channel about this.

 

[nonoob]

One of the cadre approached Forrest and demanded to know why he wasn't crying like the rest of his classmates.

Gump gave the instructor a perplexed look and calmly said, "I didn't know I was allowed to, Drill Sergeant."

A Definite Sherbro Contender...RIP.

​

Sprays should be not used as threat and best chance if until to start use them to ensure that possibility of usage pepper spray will not get noticed by attacker.
Additonally also in case if you don't want to engage in very close range fight...then after usage you should retreat.

For defense only, of course, but it needs to work Immediately, .OC preferred.

Is there one best (with a 6 foot / 2 meter spray range) legally available for non-blue state civilians ?
TIA, anyone with actual experience.

Especially if stab is combined with stuff done after this automatically. We do know if you do know in mindset this...reality.

A knife being used is for a life and death situation, understood.
NO Desire to stab someone and risk a murder/malicious wounding charge.

 

[Safton]

You can quote multiple posts in one post of your own @SandisLL . Watch.

In order to get some sense.

By kicking a chair?! What am I missing here?

Yes stabs are more effective for fast term effects I agree. While ppl usually are drilled with flowchart that opponent will use knife with flowchart that he doesn't have other tools to be used for combined attack.

Especially if stab is combined with stuff done after this automatically. We do know if you do know in mindset this...reality.

What other stuff? Like grappling? A lot of encounters involving a short, concealable blade and stabbing will involve some type of sloppy grappling almost by default.

Stabs are on paper more efective while ppl more are drilled against most common 5 - 8 attacks. Nothing wrong here of course this should be done.
While imagine what stuff opponent using cutting movements with 3 inch blade might do with your temple, eyes, neck?
Nope, I don't sell SD courses and do not have intent to have yt type channel about this.

I'm not saying you can't cut or that they can't be effective, but stabs are generally going to be way more effective with a blade that small. A stab to the temple is objectively more lethal than a cut, for instance and a while back a video made the rounds of a dude on the wrong end of a stab to the neck in a shopping mall during a scuffle. The fight ended in seconds.

Is there one best (with a 6 foot / 2 meter spray range) legally available for non-blue state civilians ?
TIA, anyone with actual experience.

I was going to suggest Fox 1.4 or Freeze +P, but with that short range I'm assuming you want something pocket-sized. POM canisters are popular these days and it's what I carry. Disclaimer in that I haven't been sprayed by it, but those who have generally compare it to Sabre Red (if not a bit better) and I've been exposed to that a few times now...

 

[SandisLL]

By kicking a chair?! What am I missing .

One from methods usable in some cases and sitiations is to slow down opponent's intent to close distance etc. For this purpose all awailable items might appear to be usable.
If in area between you and opponent is chair, usually excepted from you action might be that you will attempt to grab stuff and hit head...with ofc predictable movements...
More rare cases when it is used as some kind of short term shield or kicked in order to hit your legs...complicated things sometimes are very simple.
Grappling elements are usable to establish control if you managed to apply proper grips or in oder to disbalance attacker with intent to remain in standup position while he is down...definitely not to roll on the ground on da tech street where someone else might easily process you when you are rolling on the ground with some guy....

Cuts, I don't talk here about supraficial stuff like 1/10 inch deep things. Cuts might be 1 inch and more than this ....especially if knife is used as something like small sword blade....
So the same neck and some other areas...they might be fatal....
Ofc stabbing type attacks are prefered but ....if you do not have position etc to properly stab...you might to cut deeply in some cases. Also who had told that if you have knife then automatically you don't have legs, elbows, head, knees, another hand...or maye you might have 2 knifes?
Ofc we should know that if someone is fighting for life, he might use everything....

 

[SandisLL]

If about knife usage to attack temple with cuts ....it is really nasty stuff but usually not lethal .. for MBH criminal case most likely will be enough.
Cos temple does have a lot of veins... and after deep cut client will need treatment in hospital, doctors will prescribe painkillers and antibiotics, fill papers for administrators to inform police, insurance etc..and schedule next visit, open so called sick leave list...bla bla bla.

Most common method how knife is used to damage temple ( ofc depends from knife ) is to use not blade but basis of grip area to hit temple like with hammer.
Hammer ofc is more effective to process temple than this...also more suitable than even baseball bat or peace of heavy armature.

Preferably ofc with suitable lenght for holding and not too small and not too big " iron " surface. Suitable stuff does have potential to process temple with normal effect.

 

[Safton]

One from methods usable in some cases and sitiations is to slow down opponent's intent to close distance etc. For this purpose all awailable items might appear to be usable.
If in area between you and opponent is chair, usually excepted from you action might be that you will attempt to grab stuff and hit head...with ofc predictable movements...
More rare cases when it is used as some kind of short term shield or kicked in order to hit your legs...complicated things sometimes are very simple.

Oh, you're talking about using obstacles and improvised weapons to displace opponents/assailant. Yes, in that case I agree. I actually think the best way to use a chair is to pick it up and thrust with a sort of chest pass movement. I thought you were talking about engaging in some kind of weird leg conditioning by kicking a chair in the ring...

Grappling elements are usable to establish control if you managed to apply proper grips or in oder to disbalance attacker with intent to remain in standup position while he is down...definitely not to roll on the ground on da tech street where someone else might easily process you when you are rolling on the ground with some guy....

Again, I have no idea what tech street is.

Grappling is whenever you place a hand on the other person in a fight without striking them. Most knife attacks in the street have one hand posting/grabbing an article of clothing while the other hand acts like a sewing machine.

Takedowns and groundfighting can be viable depending on the situation, but that's neither here nor there.

Cuts, I don't talk here about supraficial stuff like 1/10 inch deep things. Cuts might be 1 inch and more than this ....especially if knife is used as something like small sword blade....
So the same neck and some other areas...they might be fatal....
Ofc stabbing type attacks are prefered but ....if you do not have position etc to properly stab...you might to cut deeply in some cases. Also who had told that if you have knife then automatically you don't have legs, elbows, head, knees, another hand...or maye you might have 2 knifes?
Ofc we should know that if someone is fighting for life, he might use everything....

If it's a sword blade then it's not the concealable knife I was addressing as your mentioned alternative to OC spray. My entire point is that with a small knife that's practical to carry on your person, the average wielder will struggle to achieve disabling cuts relative to stabs most of the time.

And sure, a cut across the temple could work to induce blindness/pain/disorientation in the same way an elbow slicing open someone does during a fight does... but it's also really bad optics and no matter what you're probably asking to get a lot of that guy's blood on you, especially if the two of you end up grappling. I hope he doesn't have anything nasty in his bloodstream.

 

[SandisLL]

Oh, you're talking about using obstacles and improvised weapons to displace opponents/assailant. Yes, in that case I agree. I actually think the best way to use a chair is to pick it up and thrust with a sort of chest pass movement. I thought you were talking about engaging in some kind of weird leg conditioning by kicking a chair in

Da tech street is situation where you immediately might get multiple opponents attacking in the same moment from different angles and locations.

 

[Safton]

Da tech street is situation where you immediately might get multiple opponents attacking in the same moment from different angles and locations.

That's... a new phrase for me. Is this a common experience for you?

 

[SandisLL]

That's... a new phrase for me. Is this a common experience for you?

I was guy from rough hood with experience what stuff is to get from middle class till bottom hole and later to climb up again.
I when was young cat had worked for stone processing, slaughtery and in hole for gambling as shift manager..and in gym fr finances, also in institution called forensic morgue in general. Maybe I will mention why I had opted not to work for slaugthery anymore.

 

[SandisLL]

Slaugtery was when I had get almost till mad mode. Director was friendly and always had agrreed to pay legal payments with social tax and income tax paid for.

Once he had batch with 3 old horses. As reason why he needs to process these he had told that they are old items. Unlike about cows and pigs.


Horse had looked in my eyes and I had ( I then was 19 y.o guy) approx 3 miles to walk till next retail store/ pub. If to be fair till end this guy had paid everything he had promised plus tax on top of this all ..in time. Without warnings used etc.