People sleep on shoulder day…

BroScienceTalkatWork said:
Yeah I don’t do that much volume anymore, but I’m not working on shoulders

Is 6 and 6 with farmers walk too much volume? Maybe a tad.

Anyways.. I got combining shoulders and traps from a program. I always thought it’s crazy people don’t do it like that. You
need some heavy trap work for shoulder day to feel like a real workout.
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Man I do more volume than that on my Upper day and wouldn't call it a shoulder day...
Saying that some of those will just be strict lat raises raises, facepulls etc, so I keep the weights pretty light after my pressing.
 
from a bodybuilding POV traps can present a bit of a programming challenge because they cover so much area. It's almost like a 3 headed muscle, works on 2 planes plus multiple stabilizing functions. I get them some work on both planes on different days, a lil bit on shoulders where they really can't be avoided anyhow and heavy on back with an elbows high row or shrug at the appropriate angle of attack.
For a "functional" trainer like a fighter they are going to get well covered in a decent program and if you did have some specific weakness zeroing in on it should be simple to address.
 
1rawdog said:
from a bodybuilding POV traps can present a bit of a programming challenge because they cover so much area. It's almost like a 3 headed muscle, works on 2 planes plus multiple stabilizing functions. I get them some work on both planes on different days, a lil bit on shoulders where they really can't be avoided anyhow and heavy on back with an elbows high row or shrug at the appropriate angle of attack.
For a "functional" trainer like a fighter they are going to get well covered in a decent program and if you did have some specific weakness zeroing in on it should be simple to address.
Click to expand...
This is good cause we’re now discussing topics I’m actually confident on

shrugs or farmers walk on pull day — I guarantee you will not be able to hit biceps adequately.

Again.. this is all from the bodybuilder style approach
 
Man y’all add everything to back day


You’re hitting
Upper back, mid back, rear delts, followed by bicep work

That’s a big day already..
 
BroScienceTalkatWork said:
This is good cause we’re now discussing topics I’m actually confident on

shrugs or farmers walk on pull day — I guarantee you will not be able to hit biceps adequately.

Again.. this is all from the bodybuilder style approach
Click to expand...
As always I would say... it depends. So not disagreeing with you but saying it's not black and white. I've tried every split there is I'm sure lol. One I keep going back to for the last 20 years or so is my own which I made to approach this exact problem. I won't lay it all out here but the twist/unique part is that I don't train biceps with any iso movement on back day, I do Tris after back. I bet you can see the reasoning and I bet you can guess what I hit with (actually before) chest :) .

I know their are some undisputable rules but I love the individuality aspect of this game
 
1rawdog said:
As always I would say... it depends. So not disagreeing with you but saying it's not black and white. I've tried every split there is I'm sure lol. One I keep going back to for the last 20 years or so is my own which I made to approach this exact problem. I won't lay it all out here but the twist/unique part is that I don't train biceps with any iso movement on back day, I do Tris after back. I bet you can see the reasoning and I bet you can guess what I hit with (actually before) chest :) .

I know their are some undisputable rules but I love the individuality aspect of this game
Click to expand...
I have a weight room in my apartment so I just do curls separately
 
BroScienceTalkatWork said:
Man y’all add everything to back day


You’re hitting
Upper back, mid back, rear delts, followed by bicep work

That’s a big day already..
Click to expand...
Not quoted but assuming yer talking to me ...

Yes and no, I'm doing less reps (and sets) in the workout than you are so total WO volume is low
 
1rawdog said:
This is a sorta rare conversation for this place eh? No insults or attacks ? WTF lol
PS - I'm not denying my part in those other types of convos btw
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@BroScienceTalkatWork @1rawdog

Sorry I will come in and fix it for you.

You are both wrong because everyone knows you need to prefatigue the biceps to really isolate them to grow.

Traps become involved in heavy curls to start the movement. If you prefatigued them, you are forced to isolate the biceps to start the movement.
less weight, but true biceps isolation. Plus everyone knows weighted (atleast half bodyweight) chins/pullups build more bicep size than anything else.
You just need to do them correctly.

Jokes aside, weighted pullups and isometric band curls of all things led to the best growth for me. I wasn't trying to grow them at all at the time.
Literally load the weighted pullups super heavy and then use the Iso to force tension at various points. It comes with none of the negatives of pushing high volume curls/bicep work.

Let me know when we are going to start calling to fight each other.That's my favourite part.
 
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maximus__ said:
Jokes aside, weighted pullups and isometric band curls of all things led to the best growth for me. I wasn't trying to grow them at all at the time.
Literally load the weighted pullups super heavy and then use the Iso to force tension at various points. It comes with none of the negatives of pushing high volume curls/bicep work.

Let me know when we are going to start calling to fight each other.That's my favourite part.
Click to expand...
Yessir, thats the basic reasoning behind why I don't usually train bis on back day. Plenty of stimulation from back exercises, especially the overhead ones.
For those that don't know EMG studies could be described simply as a way of measuring muscle activation. Their may be newer studies that conflict (please post if you see them) but of all the ones I have seen the exercise that activates the biceps the most is is a close grip chinup or pulldown with a supinated or neutral grip. My back workout almost always will have an overhead movement. I do curls, hammer curls and fores on other days.

Of course EMG studies are not the end all, be all but its something.
I've seen a few articles where they mention how big the bis on male gymnasts who do rings are, seems doubtful that those guys do much in the way of tradition weight curls.
 
1rawdog said:
Yessir, thats the basic reasoning behind why I don't usually train bis on back day. Plenty of stimulation from back exercises, especially the overhead ones.
For those that don't know EMG studies could be described simply as a way of measuring muscle activation. Their may be newer studies that conflict (please post if you see them) but of all the ones I have seen the exercise that activates the biceps the most is is a close grip chinup or pulldown with a supinated or neutral grip. My back workout almost always will have an overhead movement. I do curls, hammer curls and fores on other days.

Of course EMG studies are not the end all, be all but its something.
I've seen a few articles where they mention how big the bis on male gymnasts who do rings are, seems doubtful that those guys do much in the way of tradition weight curls.
Click to expand...
100%. That's why I like to load them heavy. You start from a full stretch position, can't use momentum with the weight and if you drop fast, the weight pulls you off (lol). I could tell someone to do that and get the training effect I want without explaining more than do a full rep under control.

My cousin's uncles sister invented the chin up so I must be right. I may also have been the chin up champion in 93.

I think using a pulldown is weak, so I guess we now need to fight for real... I don't sit down for nobody when I am pulling... What's next? getting down on your knees whilst you pull?
 
maximus__ said:
My cousin's uncles sister invented the chin up so I must be right. I may also have been the chin up champion in 93.
Click to expand...
Holy shit. Wait a minute. You mean Sarah?
Hang on, if she is your cousin's uncles sister then I don't think I can fight you because then maybe...

focused-thinking.jpg


...Son?
 
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