palestine/israel, what would it take?

[Phlog]

It would be a big start and give a chance to coming to a deal without being constantly derailed by extremists.

Your being foolish, it's a common fallacy amongst the alternative sub culture. What your doing is ignoring the vast number of 'extremists' in history motivated by pure politics or ideology. Religion is not the problem any more than culture or politics.

On a separate point: Ireland is a good example of how peace is possible after an invasion with settlement. It takes time. It would be quicker with a lot of blood.

 

[SammyPops]

the US has to stop blindly supporting Israel.

 

[HIMBOB]

Judging by the current climate in the area: Isreal to finish the genocide on behalf of the settlers, while the moderates stay silent.


Israel can choose pease if it wants, Palestinians have no such choice.

 

[Marsupial]

one state, but jews dont want that because they would be outnumbered

Obviously. There is no way that Israel's Jews will opt for mass suicide in the form of a single bi-national state.

 

[computer fogie]

I hate to be Debbie downer here but either an alien invasion or the complete annihilation of one side.

Oh don't be a Negative Nancy. Hope for a plague.

 

[Supereem]

Muslims and/or Arabs do NOT have the Jews due to Muhammeds initial conflict with them in the Quran. This opinion shows a lack of historical education.


Muslims and Jews have never always hated each other. Throughout history Muslims have been the nicest to the Jews compared to Christian Europeans and it is not even debatable. Generally, the Jews repaid them with the same respect.

Both Orthodox and Catholic have hated Jews for centuries. Often trade rivals, the Jews were blamed for every sin on Earth. I have heard from European Grandmothers today that the Jews will kidnap Christians and drink their blood.

The Ottoman (Muslim) Sultan invited the Jews to move to the Ottoman Empire after seeing what atrocities the Christians were doing to them. The majority of them settled in Thessaloniki in modern day Greece. The Jews held a privileged place in Ottoman society and assisted the Muslims in all matters including war.

Now ofcourse there is a difference between Turk and Arab, but religion has little do to with their hatred. This is about territory. If territory was not an issue the Jews would likely be friendlier with various Muslims than with the West. The worst Jewish pogroms were always in Europe.

Also I am not saying the Muslims are saints by any means, especially the Turks who have committed some disgusting genocides.

 

[SammyPops]

Obviously. There is no way that Israel's Jews will opt for mass suicide in the form of a single bi-national state.

correct, the chosen people need their own state and will kill every single person who gets in their way

 

[Marsupial]

correct, the chosen people need their own state and will kill every single person who gets in their way

I wholeheartedly agree that Jews deserve their own state, as much as (and possibly more so) than any other group. There are already 22 Arab states and a little over 50 Muslim majority states overall, so there's certainly room for one tiny Jewish one. However, I wouldn't refer to Jews as the "chosen people" as that is merely a crude misinterpretation of religious scripture wheeled out as a slur by those who hate Jews as a means of generalizing them as all inherently supremacist.

The latter part of what you said above is just silly. The Palestinian population has flourished and increased exponentially since modern Israel was founded and even since the occupation started in 1967. Not only that, but in comparison to most of the surrounding region, Palestinians enjoy a high standard of living and are treated very well by the state of Israel, given the circumstances (i.e. being conquered). Israel acts with enormous restraint in the face of decades of terrorism, mass violence, and genocidal rhetoric from Palestinians and other Arab/Islamic tyrannies surrounding it.
If Israel's plan was to "kill everyone that got in its way" then this ongoing conflict would have been long over and for some time.

 

[lfd0311]

Your being foolish, it's a common fallacy amongst the alternative sub culture. What your doing is ignoring the vast number of 'extremists' in history motivated by pure politics or ideology. Religion is not the problem any more than culture or politics.On a separate point: Ireland is a good example of how peace is possible after an invasion with settlement. It takes time. It would be quicker with a lot of blood.

That's where you're absolutely incorrect. There is a reason there is constant strife and conflict in and around Muslim countries, and it's because of the Religion.

 

[lfd0311]

The international community could easily force an end to the conflict if the political will was there and the US wasn't providing unqualified support to Israel.

utter fantasy

 

[lfd0311]

Muslims and/or Arabs do NOT have the Jews due to Muhammeds initial conflict with them in the Quran. This opinion shows a lack of historical education.


Muslims and Jews have never always hated each other. Throughout history Muslims have been the nicest to the Jews compared to Christian Europeans and it is not even debatable. Generally, the Jews repaid them with the same respect.

Both Orthodox and Catholic have hated Jews for centuries. Often trade rivals, the Jews were blamed for every sin on Earth. I have heard from European Grandmothers today that the Jews will kidnap Christians and drink their blood.

The Ottoman (Muslim) Sultan invited the Jews to move to the Ottoman Empire after seeing what atrocities the Christians were doing to them. The majority of them settled in Thessaloniki in modern day Greece. The Jews held a privileged place in Ottoman society and assisted the Muslims in all matters including war.

Now ofcourse there is a difference between Turk and Arab, but religion has little do to with their hatred. This is about territory. If territory was not an issue the Jews would likely be friendlier with various Muslims than with the West. The worst Jewish pogroms were always in Europe.

Also I am not saying the Muslims are saints by any means, especially the Turks who have committed some disgusting genocides.

Yet again showing how little you know or understand about the religion you're always defending....

 

[SammyPops]

I wholeheartedly agree that Jews deserve their own state, as much as (and possibly more so) than any other group. There are already 22 Arab states and a little over 50 Muslim majority states overall, so there's certainly room for one tiny Jewish one. However, I wouldn't refer to Jews as the "chosen people" as that is merely a crude misinterpretation of religious scripture wheeled out as a slur by those who hate Jews as a means of generalizing them as all inherently supremacist.

The latter part of what you said above is just silly. The Palestinian population has flourished and increased exponentially since modern Israel was founded and even since the occupation started in 1967. Not only that, but in comparison to most of the surrounding region, Palestinians enjoy a high standard of living and are treated very well by the state of Israel, given the circumstances (i.e. being conquered). Israel acts with enormous restraint in the face of decades of terrorism, mass violence, and genocidal rhetoric from Palestinians and other Arab/Islamic tyrannies surrounding it.
If Israel's plan was to "kill everyone that got in its way" then this ongoing conflict would have been long over and for some time.

how is the term 'chosen people' a misinterpretation? It is a term used in their holy books/religion to spate them from goys?

also, I did not state or mean to assert israel has committed a holocaust against the palis, rather they would if forced to.

 

[lfd0311]

how is the term 'chosen people' a misinterpretation? It is a term used in their holy books/religion to spate them from goys?

also, I did not state or mean to assert israel has committed a holocaust against the palis, rather they would if forced to.

It absolutely would if forced to, and the Palestinians are the ones who are going to force it upon them.

 

[Ruprecht]

A few million more Sherdog threads should sort it.

...otherwise divine intervention, annihilation or perhaps, eventually, fatigue.

 

[SammyPops]

It absolutely would if forced to, and the Palestinians are the ones who are going to force it upon them.

Kind of weird logic here: the palis forcing their oppressors to move from simply oppressing them to committing a holocaust.

I see it more coming from a foreign power. maybe iran will detonate a dirty nuke in tel aviv and the jew will go nuts and nuke everything from iran to pairs and slaughtering every pali simply b/c they can .

 

[lpaulgib]

My experience in the Middle East showed me unless you can bring back all the people who've been murdered by both sides, you'll have blood feuds going on for generations.

 

[lfd0311]

Kind of weird logic here: the palis forcing their oppressors to move from simply oppressing them to committing a holocaust.

I see it more coming from a foreign power. maybe iran will detonate a dirty nuke in tel aviv and the jew will go nuts and nuke everything from iran to pairs and slaughtering every pali simply b/c they can .

Israel would be just fine with giving Palestine it's own country except for the fact that Palestine would never stop trying to attack Israel. When I was in Israel in 2006 I got the feeling that your average Israeli wants peace at any cost. If it takes a two state solution, they're in. If it takes the extermination of a people who will never, ever stop being their enemy, they're ok with that too. Israel has offered numerous peace solutions over the years, Palestine has offered zero, and never really appeared to take such negotiations seriously. Palestine isn't some innocent victim in this the way people like you, nicky and benjamins like to pretend.

 

[SammyPops]

Israel would be just fine with giving Palestine it's own country except for the fact that Palestine would never stop trying to attack Israel. When I was in Israel in 2006 I got the feeling that your average Israeli wants peace at any cost. If it takes a two state solution, they're in. If it takes the extermination of a people who will never, ever stop being their enemy, they're ok with that too. Israel has offered numerous peace solutions over the years, Palestine has offered zero, and never really appeared to take such negotiations seriously. Palestine isn't some innocent victim in this the way people like you, nicky and benjamins like to pretend.

lol @ this. Israel has occupied, oppressed, and generally murdered and fucked over palis for decades. Funny how the oppressed fight back?

Palis are obviously super pissed off, but just like Egypt and other middle east nations, the palis and the jew can live in if not peace, at least not wtf this is.

Oh, and I do not think the palis are innocent but they are victims, of both isrealis aggression and Zionist international influence

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

A few million more Sherdog threads should sort it.

...otherwise divine intervention, annihilation or perhaps, eventually, fatigue.

Yeah, fatigue is a possible option...

one would think that after several centuries of this $hit they would have blew their wod.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

Leaders of Hamas, Al Qaeda, and the Martyrs brigade have already told us what it would take. The extermination of all Jews. Tough to negotiate with that.

hamas in joining the unity government has already agreed to recognize israel, don't know why you would mention AQ.