Law Oregon rolls back decriminalization of drug possession

[blaseblase]

Does anyone think 30 days in the joint is going to cure addiction? There's a midway point between send to jail and allow to freely shoot up on the street that we haven't seemed to reach yet.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Fentanyl has clearly changed everything but the chemically addictive drugs like meth and opioids should never have been decriminalized

 

[thebarkster]

Those who govern and write and pass our laws are not always well educated in the area they effect by their actions. After years of dealing with this problem I have learned one thing. You can not help a person addicted to drugs by enabling them. That includes giving them drugs, money, shelter, paraphernalia or anything else. That especially includes lessening the consequences for their actions. Yes that includes putting them in a rehab. That doesn't work either unless they decide to do it themselves. They have to want it. They really have to hit rock bottom and decide on their own that it really isn't that great anymore. Anything done to make their life of drugs more comfortable or easy will further contribute to their addiction. This holds true in 99.99999% of cases.
Untill our law makers and authorities realize this we will have laws and policies that compound this problem. If we really want to help, there has to be consequences that makes the drug addict decide on their own to not take drugs. Untill then we will have policies that compound the problem, kill more people, destroy more families and put a bigger toll on our society. Let's truly fix this problem. Let's get seriously tuff on drugs. Let's make it more uncomfortable for them to the point they will decide on their own to quit or maybe even never start. Let's make it such a crime to deal drugs that no one will do it. Let's save our country and hundreds of thousands of our children.

 

[Scerpi]

What would you do if you were king of the world?

Are you confident incarcerating addicts is the best way forward?

Mandatory Rehab or Prison

Pick one

Leave rehab? Go behind bars

 

[Scerpi]

Those who govern and write and pass our laws are not always well educated in the area they effect by their actions. After years of dealing with this problem I have learned one thing. You can not help a person addicted to drugs by enabling them. That includes giving them drugs, money, shelter, paraphernalia or anything else. That especially includes lessening the consequences for their actions. Yes that includes putting them in a rehab. That doesn't work either unless they decide to do it themselves. They have to want it. They really have to hit rock bottom and decide on their own that it really isn't that great anymore. Anything done to make their life of drugs more comfortable or easy will further contribute to their addiction. This holds true in 99.99999% of cases.
Untill our law makers and authorities realize this we will have laws and policies that compound this problem. If we really want to help, there has to be consequences that makes the drug addict decide on their own to not take drugs. Untill then we will have policies that compound the problem, kill more people, destroy more families and put a bigger toll on our society. Let's truly fix this problem. Let's get seriously tuff on drugs. Let's make it more uncomfortable for them to the point they will decide on their own to quit or maybe even never start. Let's make it such a crime to deal drugs that no one will do it. Let's save our country and hundreds of thousands of our children.

Enablers and progressives

The Road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

[Loiosh]

Mandatory Rehab or Prison

Pick one

Leave rehab? Go behind bars

The first doesn't seem realistic and we already have the second one, but at least we're talking about it.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

Does anyone think 30 days in the joint is going to cure addiction? There's a midway point between send to jail and allow to freely shoot up on the street that we haven't seemed to reach yet.

Most of these people get drugs in jail anyway lol

 

[nhbbear]

What is needed to deal with this isn't decriminalization. It's legalization, a fuck ton of regulations and aggressive cops and das that make it clear that while getting high and possessing drugs won't get you thrown in the clank all other crimes will be enforced twice as aggressively , homelessness won't be tolerated , theft won't be tolerated , prop destruction won't be tolerated etc.

Our drug policies are a disaster that get people killed daily as well as making the polices job all but impossible and decriminalization causes more problems than it fixes and is a very much let the chips fall where they may kind of policy.

I keep telling you what the answer to this problem is but I think the cop in you makes it very hard to accept. We need a whole net set of rules for drug use and a very clear line on what will be and won't be tolerated. You will be a functional addict or be solid gone , you can use ab and c but not xyz. If heroin and cocaine classic aren't good enough straight to jail. If you sell anyone meth and fenty you get the Ronald reagen mandatory sentence. If you sell anyone that shit and they die you go away forever. Use all that atf and Dea energy and literally hunt down anyone who refuses to adjust to the new normal.

It will take some time for everyone to get used to the new way but it will be better for everyone. The cops the addicts and the families of said addicts.

I am a million percent against decriminalization. It has no upside. None.

You still have violence over drug turf fought by gangs because it is still a black market

People are beaten, robbed, raped, or killed because they deal with shady ass people and go to shady ass places to get drugs

you still have unknown ingredients and quantities in the drugs(they are putting fentanyl in pot now (I remember the first case in my city where three people overdosed smoking a joint and they had no idea that it wasn’t just weed. They do this to try and get people addicted and then they become fentanyl users, which is where the real money is, and people are dying because of this tactic)

And, with decriminalized drugs, the police can’t do shit about it, so they don’t even try.

It pisses me off that pot is not yet federally legal. It’s absurd to me.

With that said, I just can’t get behind legalizing all drugs.

I do at least see some positive aspects of it such as regulated products, less of a black market, sales tax money. But, I don’t think this country can handle going into store and being able to buy OxyContin without a script, cocaine, heroin, etc. I think that legalization lends some notion of safety because now “it’s regulated” so it must be safe.

And this isn’t the cop in me. Seriously, now that I am retired, I just don’t care that much anymore. I still have to deal with junkies in my current job at the hospital, and it is frustrating-but I don’t deal with drug dealers very often anymore or have to clean up their messes responding to overdoses or shootings or have to arrest them. But I don’t think the citizens could handle this much freedom responsibly and we would have even more junkies imo. I think the fact that drugs are illegal keeps many people away from trying them.

And for the people that think that drug dealers would go straight….fucking lol. If you legalized drugs, they would still sell drugs and just try to undercut the legit sellers, but they would probably only get junkies that can’t afford CVS prices. And for the ones that quit dealing, they would move on to robberies or burglaries, it they definitely aren’t getting a legit job.

And one final thing. Look at all the lawsuits against pharmacies for dispensing prescriptions and they still got sued for hundreds of millions for selling medicine. Do you think these places would be willing to sell cocaine now that it’s legal? I honestly don’t know.

 

[nhbbear]

Those talking about Portugal don't really understand what Portugal did. In 2001, when they decriminalised drug possession into an administrative offence, they had total drug deaths of 76 per year. In the last 20 years this has fallen to as low as 10, but has seesawed in-between the highest and lowest figures.

Portugal also still has more opioid addicted people per capita than the UK, Denmark, Netherlands, Italy and Poland.

When talking about prison populations prior to decriminalisation, Portugal locked up around 4x as many people for drugs as the European median. They currently sit as more are less bang on the median average across the continent.

Also Portugal doesn't have the Fentanyl cancer to deal with .

It’s only a matter of time before fentanyl is there if not already.

 

[nhbbear]

This being decriminalization?

Addicts aren't criminals unless we want that. Addicts who commit crimes are criminals.

Prohibition makes addicts criminals and but that's a choice. I have to believe there's a better way.

Get ready for the socialist bedrock of who I am.... I think we as a society should worry more about the greater good than personal success. We should care about the health and well being of our brothers and sisters, even if it costs us money.

I probably pay a much higher percentage of my salary in taxes than you because I'm Canadian, but you know what? Our social safety net is a hell of a lot better and I'm thankful for it. Now that I'm older and have health concerns, I'm amazed by how much of is free. I have more money in the bank than I'll ever spend, but if I didn't I'd still be fine, and a lot of people don't.

Long story short I think just putting addicts in jail is a bad solution and we can do better. I wish we could have this conversation over pitchers of beer because it's long and complicated, I know you're very different from me, and I'd love to hear how you feel.

See my response to @Gutter Chris about my stance on decrim vs legalization for more details, but the quick and dirty version is that decriminalizing is the worst of the 3 options (being what we have now, decrim, and legalize).

I don’t give we should lock addicts up in jail for possession. They need lockdown rehab. There are plenty of high functioning addicts, but most addicts (of illegal substances) are criminals and not just because they use. They steal and commit other crimes to finance their habit.

The issue with Oregon is that it is a very progressive state to begin with. So they thought they would show just how progressive they really are by this experiment, which cost thousands of lives with 190% more overdoses than before decriminalizing. And being more progressive, they also tend not to take other minor crimes seriously such as theft, shoplifting, public intoxication, etc. so what you end up with is a bunch of non-functional addicts that are also criminals running around with zero checks and balances and police have no tools to deal with these issues. Again, because it’s a progressive state with progressive criminal justice system, these people run wild and there’s nothing you can do about it except wait until the OD and die .

 

[Fluffernutter]

Even many of the pro legalize drugs crowd was against this plan:

- they knew that Portland would suck up all of the resources and poorer communities would be ignored.

- more money was supposed to go towards beds in treatment facilities. But, that did happen. Not nearly enough facilities were created.

How many people moved to Oregon due to this policy?

 

[The Big Yin]

It’s only a matter of time before fentanyl is there if not already.

I doubt it will catch on like it has in the US. Heroin is a relatively small problem here and opioid painkillers aren't prescribed en masse. I have never come across anyone in my personal or work life who was addicted to prescribed medication.

 

[Misfit23]

Even many of the pro legalize drugs crowd was against this plan:

- they knew that Portland would suck up all of the resources and poorer communities would be ignored.

- more money was supposed to go towards beds in treatment facilities. But, that did happen. Not nearly enough facilities were created.

How many people moved to Oregon due to this policy?

Just one facility was created. One.

 

[nhbbear]

I doubt it will catch on like it has in the US. Heroin is a relatively small problem here and opioid painkillers aren't prescribed en masse. I have never come across anyone in my personal or work life who was addicted to prescribed medication.

Well, I guess that goes to the point that every place and culture is different. Personally, I don’t think the US could handle legalization across the board. I really don’t.

During my career in law enforcement, in early 2002, crack was the drug of choice. It was absolutely everywhere and if you had a dealer on the streets-they were selling crack. Then, around 2009, Rx pills were everywhere and now, you had to know where to look to find crack. After the pills, heroin became very prevalent. Around 2013, pills became harder to get and everyone turned to heroin. Then we had a lot of oil and gas workers come here from the south and they brought meth. First time I ever got meth off anyone was 2017. Then fentanyl hit and it hit hard. And now, they are doing the one-two punch of fentanyl and tranq.

 

[dirtypablo]

You can't point to another countries methodology in this one specific area and assume it would work here if everything else about how that country handles related issues is radically different.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Or you could just give them large amounts of fent and let nature take its course

 

[Lucas1980]

The trouble is that the places where they legalize drugs they don't enforce other laws...like Public intoxication and loitering, public defecation. Alcohol is legal in my city but you'll get arrested for all these other offenses and thats a major difference. This experiment needs to be tried in a area where all these other laws are still enforced.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

After rehab for one or two times, they get 6 months "probation" for drug testing.

Edit: let the rehab handle the probation.

- If they still use drugs after rehab, maybe the rehab isnt working or the causes of the addiction are still around?

And i am against the legalize all drugs. Common. The first responders will have to do month to month, in some person thats choking on his own vomit, and unknow drugs in his system. And there are drugs that naloxone or namalfene arent aren't work.

I know this isnt the intention of the legalize all, people, but we would end with several people dead at sidewalks!