Optimizing Your Size, Strength, and Recovery with Protein, by David Barr

[MikeMartial]

Another great article by David Barr, taken from EliteFTS on optimizing protein supplementation:

I have one of those good news/bad news situations for you. Which do you want first? Let me guess

 

[thethirddiaz]

Great article again. Thanks, Dave.

Thanks for posting, Mike.

 

[ViciousVendetta]

When he says fats, do you know if that includes healthy fats? I like to include flax meal into my shakes for the omegas and added fiber to my diet, but now im concerned that the mono and polyunsaturated fats in it, along with the natural fat, will work against me in the ways he described. -.-

 

[Vedic]

Another great article by David Barr, taken from EliteFTS on optimizing protein supplementation:

I have one of those good news/bad news situations for you. Which do you want first? Let me guess

 

[Vedic]

As I stated in the other thread.


""""""The adding of EFA'a does not negate that statement because the contents are still in a liquified form and will not delay gastric emptying. Furthermore the absortion of aminos is done through the small intestine and the absortion of fats is taken up lymphatically unless they are MCT's (in which they act more as carbs) so the idea that the influx is delayed to a point that it actually effects digestion is highly overrated. Another message board myth that seems to be spreading....""""""""""""



"""""""""Primary digetsion is breaking down solids into chyme then breaking down chyme to be absorbed into the bloodstrem through various pathways. The makeup of a meal and its individual properties determine how digestion/absortion takes place. Stating protein digests this way and carbs digest this way is incorrect becasue even within those macronturients there are varitions that determine how much and how fast gets digested and absorbed. There are simply too many variables to make blanket statements about macronutrient digestion.

Example: A steak will take much longer to digest because of its fat content even though its an extremely high protein source. The protein portion has little to do with the intial stages of breaking down fats into lipids and until that is accomplished the protein portion won't be absorbed.

Too many variables.


The majority of delay when it comes to fats is either

a) When they are in a solid state and it delays the breakdown of bolus (solid like state) into chyme (semi-liquid) state. With a shake, this process is already complete so that delay is almost nonexistant....Think of red meat and the difference in fats vs. oils.

b) The emulsification of saturated or transfatty acids within the small intestine. At this point the absortion of amino's is already taking place.

So in general when your fat amount is about 1-2tblsp within a liquid state already (thanks to your blender) the delay in amino absortion is almost non-existant.

Whole foods are where fats delay digestion the most. Even then the actual absortion of nutrients (amino's specifically) isn't altered that much. The process of breaking down whole foods and trasnfering them to the lower part of the stomach and into the small intestine is just a much slower process because of its makeup."""""""""""''

 

[MikeMartial]

Fat DOES NOT SLOW PROTEIN ABSORPTION especially in a liquid state. Come on Dave, you know that.

I know you rant on this all the time, Vedic, but I think the statement is misinterpreted on both sides. He didn't mention protein absorption, he stated it slowed digestion. You and I can both agree that's two different things. Fat, be it liquid or solid, DOES lower the overall GI of a bolus of food, and I think that's the point people misinterpret.

 

[Jake Martin]

This is an interesting article. Never really thought of doing anything like this except in emergency situations (No meals available, stick some whey in a shaker cup of water and let 'er rip).

One thing, I wouldn't cite myself in an article...simply because citations are meant to add credibility, but citing oneself stuck out in my mind as sort of lame.

But other than that very cool stuff!

 

[Vedic]

I know you rant on this all the time, Vedic, but I think the statement is misinterpreted on both sides. He didn't mention protein absorption, he stated it slowed digestion. You and I can both agree that's two different things. Fat, be it liquid or solid, DOES lower the overall GI of a bolus of food, and I think that's the point people misinterpret.

Digestion and absorption are interchangeable, always has been always will be. Either way, they aren't even taken up in the same mechanism, that's my point. They aren't even processed in the same manner. Its like the urethra and the colon tract. One is for one use, the other for another. Lymphatically fats are absorbed, protein in the intestines. Neither one negates or hinders the other.


ESPECIALLY in a liquid state.

 

[MikeMartial]

Digestion and absorption are interchangeable, always has been always will be. Either way, they aren't even taken up in the same mechanism, that's my point. They aren't even processed in the same manner. Its like the urethra and the colon tract. One is for one use, the other for another. Lymphatically fats are absorbed, protein in the intestines. Neither one negates or hinders the other.

I know that and you know that, but what I'm saying is the blanket statement "Fat slows digestion/fat slows protein absorption" is used just like that---a blanket statement that's misinterpreted, yet thrown around all the time, much like the term "cardio" if you catch my drift.

It seems to come up A LOT...what this forum could use is a well worded post explaining this, to be linked in the FAQ......


(hint hint) :icon_chee

 

[T.J.T]

The intresting thing about David Barr's articals is they are not some borinig ass prof paper, its almost like a little story. An adventure in diet, quite fun!

 

[Vedic]

I know that and you know that, but what I'm saying is the blanket statement "Fat slows digestion/fat slows protein absorption" is used just like that---a blanket statement that's misinterpreted, yet thrown around all the time, much like the term "cardio" if you catch my drift.

It seems to come up A LOT...what this forum could use is a well worded post explaining this, to be linked in the FAQ......


(hint hint) :icon_chee

I get you hint:icon_lol: Like I said I liked the article, but that part is well both incorrect and misleading.

 

[David Barr]

Fats should be avoided PWO due to fat mobilization, we all know that. But I have been over it numerous times. Fat DOES NOT SLOW PROTEIN ABSORPTION especially in a liquid state. Come on Dave, you know that.

Vedic I appreciate your info on liquid fats -it's not something I've considered before. I think the statement in the article may have been too strong, given the information you provided. That said, it's still not something I would ever consider adding to a truly fast shake -e.g. low MW hydro and glucose. I'm trying to look at optimization, so this should all be about 100% maximum speed.

Thanks for reiterating.

 

[David Barr]

One thing, I wouldn't cite myself in an article...simply because citations are meant to add credibility, but citing oneself stuck out in my mind as sort of lame.

I know exactly what you mean. I did it because these articles tend to spawn numerous questions -most of which have already been answered in other articles. I figure if I can simply reference them then it will save everybody some time.

 

[Vedic]

Vedic I appreciate your info on liquid fats -it's not something I've considered before. I think the statement in the article may have been too strong, given the information you provided. That said, it's still not something I would ever consider adding to a truly fast shake -e.g. low MW hydro and glucose. I'm trying to look at optimization, so this should all be about 100% maximum speed.

Thanks for reiterating.

Its ok, we can agree to both agree and disagree:icon_lol: I understand where you are coming from and the camp you sit in. I am just saying it doesn't slow it at all in my eyes. As for PWO, I would NEVER include fat, but for different reasons. As I said like all your others, I enjoyed this article. Thanks for contributing here.

 

[Deleted member 87037]

"Fats must be avoided at all costs because they slow digestion and eliminate any potential pulsing effect."

I know Vedic said that liquid fats are fine, but I like to have eggs (on the side) with my protein shake in the mornings. Is this fine or will it negate the pulsing effect?

 

[Vedic]

He says it will effect it. I say it won't

 

[Btwestyo]

So will 500ml of water and a scoop of whey hydrosylate be effective?

 

[gogoGomi]

Whey PWO shake made with whole milk isnt optimal then?

 

[thethirddiaz]

This is an interesting article. Never really thought of doing anything like this except in emergency situations (No meals available, stick some whey in a shaker cup of water and let 'er rip).

One thing, I wouldn't cite myself in an article...simply because citations are meant to add credibility, but citing oneself stuck out in my mind as sort of lame.

But other than that very cool stuff!

You have a point and it does look strange, but in any science field you will find authors citing their own work very often. Mostly this is because their work is building off of older work. I would find it odd for an established researcher not to cite him or herself.

 

[blakethemus]

Great read thanks!