Opinions on JJ students abandoning their original schools

[lechien]

Creonte, Creonte....
People leaving the club should be smashed at the next comp.

Just joking!:redface:


Only in BJJ, you will get this loyalty issue.

If you pay for a personel fitness instructor on an hourly basis, he is not going to give you the loyalty speech.

In BJJ, instructors give you the guilty trip because loosing students is a financial burden.

I don't like team members leaving because I might have to fight them on the next tournament

But I am an adult and I still would talk to them if I personally like them.

 

[anaconda]

Whoa whoa whoa...really? Because when I was in Atlanta it felt like there was a blood feud between Alliance and Knuckle Up, the two largest schools in the area? Or are you talking about Tiger and Unit2?

That said, Saulo even says in his new book that you HAVE to train at other places or you'll be stagnant. You end up learning a subset of what your instructor knows, and it's a disservice to a good instructor to have a limited student.

Sure, if your instructor is Saulo or Rickson then maybe you can stay with him through black and not suffer for it, but if your instructor is a typical black belt then it's likely you'll still benefit significantly by training with other black belts that bring different elements to their game. Hell, I'm sure that even Saulo or Rou Harris could learn something from Tinguinha and Marcelo and Galvao right?

I agree with that to a point, I also believe that a solid instructor will teach in a way that allows the individual to choose the path of our game.

In our school, for example, you can't find two guys who use the same style or have the same game. Sure, amongst us there are a few technique overlaps, but for the most part it is very little. I contribute that mostly to the fact that our instructor is big on showing us concepts, which are applicable from all positions, over techniques, which have limited application.

Supplement that with frequent seminars to show you various techniques, and everyone kind of picks up what fits naturally in their game and keeps going.

 

[Balto]

From my personal experience I have seen this happen at small schools. The story is almost tragic - the instructor takes a nobody, carves them into a somebody, and invests so much time and effort in teachings to get them higher and higher. Pretty soon they reach something of amateur fighter status, close to professional.

For one reason or another, even if it is valid (I want to take my ground game to the next level, so I'm going to train with X), I can't help but feel for the original instructor who has fingerprints all over the student's basic ground game. I've heard the quote from one instructor - "You cut / carve a diamond out of the rough, and then someone else just buffs it a little bit, and calls it their diamond".

I understand how lots of MA's are businesses, however I have lots of empathy for such instructors. It just sucks overall because no matter how valid (or invalid) the reason, you just feel like you lose a part of yourself - because the best instructors give so much of themselves away when teaching.

Part of being an instructor is giving a lot of yourself though. A truly good instructor will derive satisfaction from that.

Ultimately, a good instructor will just want the best for his students no matter what. If they are able to find a better training situation for whatever reason, a good instructor will understand that and not be angry with the student.

Sometimes people just need to move on, and an instructor needs to understand that.

 

[FWTG]

are they gonna be competing as blue belts in tournaments forerver?

so i can understand why people left.

Sure why not? Wouldnt it be fun to be owning blacks as a blue. lol Besides im sure Royce would promote them if they were cleaning up tournies at high level anyway.

 

[Jamesp777]

triple posted

 

[Jamesp777]

OMG I know that school. I train in charlotte at black belt usa, is that where you used to train?

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Sometimes I consider switching over to a straight BJJ school like GB or RG to get more BJJ time in because at CSW we only have BJJ twice a week. Then I remember that I get to train under Erik fucking Paulson and some days there are only like 2 or 3 of us there so it's practically like getting privates from a legend.

That and Erik absolutely terrifies me and I wouldn't be able to sleep much less look him straight in the eyes if I saw him driving around(we don't live too far from eachother) if I left his school for anywhere else.

Dude, I am so jealous of you. I would love to train from Erik. He seems like an easy-going guy, though. I can't see him terrifying me, even if he is beating me up at the moment.

 

[Jamesp777]

oops triple posted

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Part of being an instructor is giving a lot of yourself though. A truly good instructor will derive satisfaction from that.

Ultimately, a good instructor will just want the best for his students no matter what. If they are able to find a better training situation for whatever reason, a good instructor will understand that and not be angry with the student.

Sometimes people just need to move on, and an instructor needs to understand that.

Quoted for truth. I made a promise to myself that I would allow my students to train anywhere and everywhere they want. Out of the other places around town, they chose to train with me. That's a responsibility and an honor, so how can I demand their loyalty too? Indeed, most people have it backwards. The teacher must be loyal to his students first. I am loyal to them.

I want what's best for them, but I know I don't know everything. Others can show them different styles or different points of view. Sometimes our practice schedule or rates might not be the best for them. And sometimes a new place can help keep their jiu jitsu from getting stale. If they need to train somewhere else, well I don't mind.

Too many martial arts devolve into cults around a single personality. This is how they turn into McDojos. I never want my students to put me on a pedestal. The highest black belt is not a better person than the lowliest white belt. Everyone deserves respect. That includes the respecting their decision to train elsewhere if they chose to without taking it personally.

Oh, and someone can be loyal to an instructor and still train somewhere else at the same time. Loyalty is not exclusivity. Usually someone who asks you to be exclusive to them is being selfish IMO.

 

[Byron Pechorin]

Dude, I am so jealous of you. I would love to train from Erik. He seems like an easy-going guy, though. I can't see him terrifying me, even if he is beating me up at the moment.

It's not a physical fear. It's just the way he looks at you if you do something wrong or forget something or are just unsatisfactory period. He gives you this blank stare and you know inside he's thinking "God you are worthless." lol

That being said he's a great teacher and he's ALWAYS at the gym helping everyone.

 

[Jamesp777]

OP what's your name? I know people who train / trained where your talking about.

 

[floridalawdog]

A buddy of mine has a school up there. Its called Fight to Win, and is in a weight room/gym. His name is Steve Hall, and he is really good. From what I understand the school is top of the line in every way. And there are also alot of upper belts.

 

[platfox]

Not saying you can't leave if your instructor if you want to but saying you don't owe him shit is wrong in alot of cases. Just because you are paying him doesn't mean he is doing it only fo rthe money. Most instructors really care about their students. If you're gonna leave, just do it with respect.

 

[nefti]

it all depends. If you were a member of a school for a siginficant ammount of time then it's a different story. The thing that you want to keep in mind is that you want to leave on good terms. Both parties need to be mature for that to happen though,

 

[Hands A Blurr**]

You have to do whats best for yourself.

 

[BreezerD**]

I've become pretty friendly with my instructor, and our gym only have about 6-10 people on an average night, so we're very tight-knit. I'd feel pretty bad about leaving other than for a pretty good reason. Though my instructor is a black belt already, and getting a small class with a BB in Sydney is pretty rare.

 

[mikehmike]

If you want to compete in MMA for example and are very serious about it...I would see no problem in changing schools and moving around going from school to school.

But I personally have a tie to my school and don't want to leave so I can see it from the TS point of view as well

 

[Shaolin Bushido]

Sorry to address this one so many months later but I don't get on this forum much. There are a few points that should be cleared up.

First let me start by saying only one of the advanced guys that came over to my school has been promoted, and that was Aki to Black Belt. Yes, this would have happened at the same time at the same place if he was training at either school. In the time my school has been open there have only been eight blue belts promoted under me, one black belt under Jorge Gurgel and a few stripes here and there, and that's it. There is one other brown belt, that in my opinion should be a black belt, that trains with me on a regular basis. The rest of the advanced guys show up once a week for open mat, which is free to everyone. They didn't leave their school to train with me, so you should ask each one of them why they left.

The brown belt mentioned before and a couple blue and white belts were the only ones who left on their own free will to train under me. I have never asked them or anyone else to leave their school and join mine. I invite everyone to come and train with me and my students for free every Saturday, and what ever happens after that is up to the student. I believe adults have the right to make decisions that serve their own best interest. If a student ever wants to leave my school to train at another I will wish them luck and welcome them back with no hard feelings if they find out the grass isn't greener on the other side. Loyalty is something that is earned and not forced.

I also have nothing bad to say about any of the legitimate schools in the area. The Harrisburg school has developed some very tough fighters long before I came to town. The fact is that we are not truly competition to each other. Snake is very tough, but our focus has been different for a very long time. My last MMA fight was several years ago, but I am still actively competing and winning as a black belt in BJJ. We cater to completely different personalities. His school has strong MMA with a BJJ program, and mine is a technical BJJ school with an MMA program. When a new student comes in and says he wants to be an MMA fighter I tell him to go see Snake. If he wants to learn technical jiu jitsu there is a big difference between a black belt and a purple belt. My back ground and my students speak much louder for me than I ever can.

I am blessed to have the amount of talented students that pass through my doors on a weekly basis. Some have come from other schools but most have started clean with me. If you think it is easy to change schools or even train at more than one talk to any of the blue belts from other programs that have crossed my mat. It is a very difficult decision to make, and an even more difficult process to get on the same page with the new instructor. If you want to know if an instructor is worth your time spend some time with his students, they can't hide the instructors true intentions.

All I offer is guidance to people that want to follow the same path that I have already been down, nothing more, nothing less.

Steve Hall
Royce Gracie Black Belt

Ah, I just saw your post Steve! Thank you for your clarifications and insight. I have met you in passing/seen you at competitions and your student at PEAK who moved here form Florida who I talked to at your school. You are a class guy and your ability is unquestionable both as a competitor and a teacher.

This thread has given me tons of insight! Thanks again!

 

[dza76wutang]

There's lots of variables in schools and while loyalty is admirable, there is a bunch of factors:
1.) Quality of instruction - does the head instructor TEACH well?
2.) Diversity of instruction - does the head instructor teach moves that might be outside of his game to let each student develop their own games?
3.) Other students - are you getting enough hard competitive rolls? (personally this is big for me)
4.) Tuition
5.) Location
6.) Life changes - factors into 4 & 5
7.) Tournament Participation
8.) Atmosphere - do you like a more TMA "bow to your sensei" atmosphere or a more laid back one?
9.) Gi vs No Gi vs MMA - in RI there are 2 really awesome schools 5 miles apart, one is predominantly Gi, the other is No Gi with some MMA.
10.) Facility - is the facility dogged? Unclean? Worn down? Poorly heated/cooled/ventilated?

Ultimately, you're paying for knowledge, and an experience. If your first school is not meeting your expectations, talk to your instructor to raise your concerns, and talk again if you feel your leaving. Remember that when you leave you're taking some of their "personal" techniques and strategies with you whether you realize it or not, and I think that's part of why teachers can be so possessive, at least subconsciously.

 

[JiuJitsu_Greg]

I think if you leave your original school and your are not being treated poorly then you are a giant pile of shit. People get so greedy, selfish and belt hungry now it seems. Rarely is loyaly as important as the belt color around your and your instructors waist to a lot of jj guys and thats sad