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Opinions on JJ students abandoning their original schools

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Shaolin Bushido, Jun 29, 2008.

  1. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    .... just to clarify, we had a new school open in my area that boasts a black belt instructor with alot of tourney experience recently. We don't have many black belt instructors in my region and that is a definite "selling point".

    Many of the more advanced students from area schools joined him shortly thereafter, particularly from the school I trained at the little I have trained. I mean, MOST of my buds who were at least blue belts; a few as high as brown moved to that school and some long time upper belts were promoted shortly thereafter!

    On a side note, several are actually under the same banner as our original school(Royce Gracie). I thought that the "sudden" promotions seemed a bit ... I dunno ... opportune? Note the quotes ... I realize I could be totally wrong and appearances are often deceiveing. They were with other area schools(Alliance, Gracie Barra, RGJJN, etc ...) for between 3-9 years and a year or so after moving there they got promoted to black, brown and purple belts. The guys who got their blacks(congrats btw), got it from Royce and of course I'm not second guessing his judgement ... respect to him and the others got their purples and brown belts from the new black belt instructor UNDER Royce ....

    Though I still agree that consumers have a right to spend their money how and where they decide, for the first time I understand a bit more how the old school instructors viewed students they felt "betrayed" them by jumping around from school to school with no sense of regret, respect or loyalty.

    I also have to include the fact that I don't know for a fact that there were any hard feelings or that they didn't handle their situations in leaving with class and dignity and discussing it with their instructor(though I doubt most did). In my scant experience, the guys who seem the most selfish and aloof advance the quickest. Not only in Jiu Jitsu, but in other arts I've tried over the years as well.

    I have noticed that the average attendance in class is thinner which has to impact the school adversely ... good for me, though. I get more attention and the average level of guys I train with doesn't give me the feeling I'm a retard, slowing down the class. Our instructor is a purple belt with about 9 years experience and if I ever reach his level, I'd be more than happy. Though he isn't a black belt, his combination of technical skill, teaching ability, maturity and general likeability is unmatched imo in the Charlotte area. My instructor teaches Gracie Self Defense, the usual grappling curricula and Vale Tudo. He competes in Vale Tudo as often as he can, at the age of 37 and is built like teh bodybuilder he once was, nearly a decade ago.(much smaller actually, but if you didn't know how big he once was, you'd prolly be awed by his physique. no homo:redface:)

    [​IMG]
    That's him, in the middle.

    There are other good schools including the new one that is the subject of this thread, but overall, I think our school compares as well or better than any other around here. Personally, I have to be true to myself and in this case that means sticking with my school and instructor but I do understand guys goin out and testing the waters. Only thing is, just cause that guy has a black belt on his waist doesn't mean he's a better teacher or even as good as the lower ranking guy ... I guess that's what they're trying to learn for themselves.

    Anyways, just interested in any feedback or thoughts you guys care to offer. Not trying to stir shit but this is the first time I've witnessed this phenomena though I'm sure many of you have before. Just something that was on my mind and it's a discussion forum after all.

    If this thread incites you to change colors, sigh audibly or type tl/dr, feel free to move on to another thread and let this one drop.

    Thanx in advance to the other 99 percent of the forum who aren't retards. It is kinda long though.:icon_lol: I'll delete it if the consensus is it is shite.
     
  2. sprite

    sprite Banned Banned

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    i think this only applies to the higher ranks but the higher ranks who leave our school are viewed negatively and it seems that nobody has anything nice to say about them no matter how well liked they were before. some of the negative stuff said about them in the locker room is that they disrespected our school, our instructor, are only in it for themselves, our instructor brought so and so up from a white belt to a high belt and they say you are not doing anything for me anymore screw you, they don't want to help out, are selfish, etc.

    all of this I overhear in an angry tone, btw
     
  3. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    Hmm, I can see an instructor resenting guys leaving under circumstances like these. They probably hoped to count on those guys to assist them a little when they could instead of becoming an asset to someone else who they have little or no history with.
     
  4. silverline122

    silverline122 Brown Belt

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    Man, it must be tough!!! I guess a lot of it boils down to getting the lucky straw and starting off at the right school! I often wonder about this- especially after signing a year contract, how does one even attempt to change schools? Especially knowing that you'll probably run into your original team at tournies eventually...
     
  5. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    I think communication is key. You've got to discuss it with your instructor is you respect him at all. I think that if you're frank with him and determined to leave after speaking with him he'll harbor no ill will .... or at least not as much.

    I mean, location, cost and your own sense of what's best for you counts more than just your instructors' best interests or feelings in the long run. Even our parents have but so much input and control on us ... our martial arts instructors don't rate any more than they do and usually less.
     
  6. silverline122

    silverline122 Brown Belt

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    Indeed. However, it would be devastatingly hard for me to tell my instructor that I would be leaving his school for another in the same area... I've toyed with the idea before, but I don't think I would ever do so, unless I had an urgent reason to do so
     
  7. sprite

    sprite Banned Banned

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    be wise when choosing schools. if you like to compete and go to tournaments and stuff and your school isn't really a "tournament" school, you will often find yourself going to tournaments alone.

    some "tournament" schools like gracie barra or alliance go to tournaments as a team and whenever there is a tournament all of them guys go there together and back each other up.... and usually the instructor goes to the tournaments and competes also! instead of the opposite which is going to a tournament alone or with maybe one other down gung ho mofo from your dojo.
     
  8. spenderz

    spenderz Banned Banned

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    The way I look at it, and maybe I am a callous fellow, is that I will give my loyalty to the first instructor I meet who offers quality instruction for zero cost. If a guy wanted to do that, I would probably be 100% loyal to him. Short of that, though, I'll train wherever I want as long as I am paying for it.
     
  9. BJJ in Chicago

    BJJ in Chicago Livin' la vida bomba

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    i don't think i could ever leave my gym. after you've put in years there and been promoted to a certain level, why would you need to leave? why not work harder on improving the place you are at?

    i wonder why you instructor, who appears to be winning his nogi divisions (that pic looked like an absolute division) at naga, wouldn't get promoted by royce??
     
  10. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    That could be imminent but that's entirely up to Royce. If he was promoted any time in the next few years that would be sooner than many. He's said that he's not worried or put off about it at all; he would rather be a good purple belt than a shite brown belt. I forget how he put it but he said something like he'd like to be ownin browns when he was promoted or somehting like that. He's pretty humble and good natured.

    He trusts in Royce's judgement entirely on that matter.
     
  11. Strykerx

    Strykerx Green Belt

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    Snake is a great guy I have heard lots of good things about him. I am curious to know what is the new school you speak of maybe shoot me a PM about this on here or WWG. Anyway regarding the subject I believe if you been training under a certain instructor for so long you should be loyal. It is a relationship and friendship the two of you build one shouldn't just disappear.

    However if you are a beginner or so then I believe its okay to jump schools because you have not found the right gym for you. Certain things also affect switching schools ; distance/price/ availability/atmosphere/quality instruction. Me for example I left a very good grappling school because of the expensive price [I am sure you know who im speaking of]. People tend to forget that not everyone can teach, maybe the guys you spoke of felt that they weren't learning enough?

    Charlotte area has change a lot some schools change their programs to MMA, and one gym I know have some guys who are no gi brown belts [ that is no typo]. Our area seems to be getting better with MMA or just trying to cash in right now.

    BTW I last spoke with you about Sambo.
     
  12. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    Fight To Win. Nothing against em. Their instructor, Steve Hall, seems cool and must be pretty good since everyone I know has only good stuff to say about him and they continue to train there.

    I have spoken to the guys who invited him up from Florida and are affiliated with PEAK and they are very nice fellas.
     
  13. Strykerx

    Strykerx Green Belt

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    I would of never guess that, I didn't know you were speaking of him, he has actually posted here on Sherdog before or an impersonator. To be honest anyone would be crazy to leave your gym to go to FTW you guys have the cheapest price (50 a month for unlimited :icon_chee) and have good instructors. You know if I didn't live on the opposite side of it I would be going there.
    I guess those guys you spoke of felt a new belt was more important than their friendship with the instructor?
     
  14. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    Those are along the lines of my motivation for this thread. Kinda hard to say conclusively what they're thinking though ... I mean, they HAVE trained much longer than I and WAAAAY longer with Snake and company. They've also trained with Steve. Believe me though ... I've seen the commitment and dedication Snake has to Jiu Jitsu, Royce and all of his students .... I'm sold!

    Maybe in a coupla weeks when I'm a deserving of a brown belt, I'll feel differently!:icon_lol:

    Btw, Snake and Steve get along well and have hosted seminars at one anothers' schools. I don't think they're that close though. They do have in common their relationship and respect for Royce and Rodrigo; that's for sure.
     
  15. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    btw, I think that was really Steve that posted here previously. It was sorta an introduction that he was a new poster and talked about his school, right?
     
  16. Cash Bill 52

    Cash Bill 52 Brown Belt

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    Tough call. You seem happy where you are. You can still learn a lot from your current instructor. Loyalty is very important at my school. So is the dedication of the instructor. It's a 2 way street. What if you left and 6 months later you wanted to go back? What would your teammates think?

    Obviously each person has to decide what is best for them. I could never leave my school.
     
  17. Strykerx

    Strykerx Green Belt

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    Yeah, then he got bash for stuff too lol. But that was along time ago.
     
  18. Shaolin Bushido

    Shaolin Bushido Yamato Damashii

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    haha, yeh I remember ... he's a white belt in "internet posting"!

    maybe I can trade with him ... my "expertise" in posting for some of his jj stuff?



    doubtful.:icon_sad:
     
  19. infamous mattyd

    infamous mattyd Brown Belt

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    I find it hard to be loyal to a person I am paying for a service. I am personal friends with many of the blacks at renzo's so that is why I feel loyalty. but if I were there just training I would go where ever had the best instruction at the best price.
     
  20. furdog

    furdog Blue Belt

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    Of course, but why is your self-interested painted as some type of bad thing? You don't join jiu-jitsu so that you may pay your instructor some fees. You join so that you can learn jiu-jitsu--and inherently selfish goal. The whole point of attending is so that you can learn a skill, and learn it well.

    If I am ever presented with an opportunity to get better instruction at a cheaper price, I will take it! That's because I take jiu-jitsu so that I can get good at it, not to provide a $120 per month charity service to a Brazilian guy. If that was the case, I would just give him my money and not show up.

    If he is training me, showing me techniques, etc, and then says I "betrayed" him by leaving, I would say--"Are you forgetting about the thousands of dollars I've paid you?" It would be a lot different if he charged absolutely nothing and the agreement was that I would stick around with him as a student forever. However, there is no such agreement. The agreement is that I pay him for instruction and he provides me that instruction. He is not providing that service out of sacrifice--he's doing it for his own benefit just like I am. The only debt I owe him is the fees I pay each month and the rules of the class (which include respect when on the mats and in the gym).

    If the instructor was a genuine friend, he wouldn't later ask me to sacrifice my ability to improve by telling me to stay at his school when I could go to a better one. That is not how a friend acts. Friends want to see you get better.
     

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