One thing that always bugged me about GoT series one (GoT brahs get in here) *SPOILERS*

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by robotsonic, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. robotsonic Brown Belt

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    Ok so there's obviously spoilers ahead if you've never seen a lick of this series so don't read this and cry later.

    OK so in GoT, series one one of the major twists is Ned confronting Cersei/Joffrey in the throne room with the letter from Robert Baratheon that says he should rule until Joffrey is of age. He also confronts them with the incest bomb. Ned does this because he has assurances from Baelish that the city watch(who Baelish controls) will back him up and arrest the fake queen mother/king but PLOT TWIST....Baelish betrays him, holds a knife to his throat, SIKE!!!! I told you not to trust me!!!

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    Much is made in the series of what a schemer Baelish is and how strategic his movements are. If you take that into consideration THERE IS ZERO FUCKING REASON why he should've betrayed Ned. Why you ask? Well let me go into it...

    First off, Baelish would've known that this little stunt would've resulted in Ned being arrested and charged as a traitor, he would've KNOWN that this would've enraged the North, but hey who cares right? I mean they're only frequently referred to as the toughest SOBs in Westeros, and there's only tens of thousands of them, I mean there's always the 6 other kingdoms to support the Lannisters in any ensuing war, right? NOPE...

    The North - obviously would've had their boy Ned's back and this comes true in the show when the kid Robb literally secedes from the entire union and invades the south because of this event. Baelish knew this would happen.

    The Stormlands - Before he enters the throne room, Baelish tells Ned that Renly was spotted leaving the capital with 100 men or something. He KNEW that Renly or Stannis would have control of this area and would've backed the anti Lannister forces so they would be no support for the throne, especially seeing as how Stannis was now the rightful heir.

    What about Dorne? Nope...it was open knowledge that Dorne hated the Lannisters because of what happened to their princess on Tywin's orders, they would've ignore any calls for help from the capital, maybe even taken up arms against them, probably not though as Doran was a wimp.

    But surely the Reach, right? Another big old NOPE. All of their armies joined up with Renly (and then Stannis) because Renly was fucking that tween Loras. Baelish knew the Reach would likely join renly's cause against the Lannisters.

    Surely the Riverlands...of course fucking not, they wouldn't have gone against Ned because of his wife, again would've been more likely to join the North in rebellion. again, Baelish knew this shit!

    Anyone left? Oh yeah, the Vale, another kingdom who hated the Lannisters and Lyssa Arryn was Ned's sister in law. There's a chance Baelish might've been able to get them onside as Lyssa was obthethed with him but stand against her own sister?

    Taking all this into account Baelish's decision to betray Ned was possibly the most retarded strategic political decision ever made. He basically rolled the dice that the Lannister army from the Westerlands would be able to hold the throne with almost the whole rest of the country against him and ALSO that nobody would find out about his treachery. Oh but Tywin was so rich and could hire mercenaries, right? NOPE. As master of coin, he knew that the Lannisters gold mines had run dry and that they were borrowing money from the Iron Bank to make ends meet so this wouldn't have figured into any decision on his part.

    Maybe I'm missing something here but if Baelish had any sense he would've bribed the city watch to back Ned up and arrest Cersei/Joffrey, maybe I'm getting a little sentimental about my boy Ned here...

    [​IMG]

    ...but it was a horrific decision when taking the facts into account. If GoT was any way realistic the Lannisters should've got merked, they had no allies and 3/4 armies against them from all sides, that's an unwinnable war, but they pulled out the win because of Mary Sue syndrome.

    Of course that does lead us down the path that Baelish wanted all of these kingdoms in open rebellion so the Lannisters were deposed but if so, why not just back Ned up and get rid of the Lannisters there and then?

    TLDR;

    - Baelish's decision to betray Ned made no sense strategically as the Lannisters had no allies and arresting him/putting him in jail resulted in 3 or 4 kingdoms in open rebellion against them.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Dober4 Banned Banned

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  3. Cela84 Blue Belt

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    He wanted the country to descend into war to increase his stature and to gain a measure of revenge on the Stark men due to him getting swordwhipped when he tried to duel for Catelyn.

    Yes, everyone hated the Lannisters, but there was an uneasy loyalty to the crown, especially so closely after the overthrow of the Targaryens. Teaming with anyone else would have labled him a usurper and basically led to him getting executed for being a traitor.

    And the Lannisters had the P4P best army due to being perceived as insanely richer than everyone else.

    And as for the game of thrones. Ned was bad at it, Stannis didn't play it, and Renly had no battle experience. Littlefinger was much more comfortable in the den of lions, with an ace up his sleeve in the form of The Vale.
     
  4. bad seed Banned Banned

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    if you read the books you'd know his primary motivation was to destroy Ned for "stealing" his beloved Catelyn. His love for her made him act irrationally.
     
  5. urnotaslave23 Stepping through my Shadow Platinum Member

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    All of this. Plus, Littlefinger, as intelligently conniving as he was, at the end of the day, is still just a man. I feel like he let that puss get in the way of his, normally "rational" thinking. He just really, really wanted to get Ned out of the picture so he could move in on Catelyn.
     
  6. Aegon Spengler Gold Belt

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    I disagree sir. Respectfully since you put forward a good argument.

    LF’s position as master of coin didn’t give him full access to the Lannisters legers or mines. All he knew was that Tywin was loaning money to the crown. He wasn’t the master of coin at Casterly rRock. Even Cercei, Tyrion and Jamie didn’t know that the Lannisters were dead broke.

    He also often spoke of Tywin respectfully and noted that he kept the kingdom together by force of will. To defeat a man like that he had to remain close to him. He couldn’t depend on outside forces.

    His main objective was to raze all the great houses. He wanted to see them all destroyed until Littlefinger was all that was left. The best way to do that was to create as much chaos as possible. He assumed the Lannisters would be able to handle a great deal of pressure and could perhaps even knock off one or two great houses before being taken out themselves. If it so happened that they lost every battle and collapsed he could betray them from within after getting some assurances from outside allies.

    He made a fine choice given his objectives.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  7. Ottawaguy Gold Belt

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    If Ned had paid attention when he watched “Gladiator” he would have known that this shit would not end well.
     
  8. SmilinDesperado Gold Belt

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    "Chaos is a ladder"
    Little Finger is all about stirring shit up. He causes trouble, watches people panic, and then seizes upon opportunity to better himself.
    He positions himself to get promoted in the world a step at a time. He isn't a born nobleman, he moved up inch by inch.
     
  9. WaylonMercy5150 Silver Belt

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  10. My Spot Beer’s on ice.

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    He had plenty of motivation. King Stannis would've closed his brothels and either ran him out of King's Landing or put his head on a pike.
     
  11. supnmunm Brown Belt

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    Ain't nobody reading that
     
  12. ralphc1 Steel Belt Platinum Member

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    Baelish is the guy at a bar that instigates a fight then stands back and watches it. The kind of guy who doesn't like someone so he starts a conflict between that person and somebody else.
     
  13. I want to see dragon sex. Like the whole thing.
     
  14. MadSquabbles500 Steel Belt

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    Baelish hates the Starks because they took Catelyn from him. Can betray Ned, then betray, and cause subterfuge amongst the other realms, and then no one be left to fight the Lannisters, and then he just take the Lannisters apart from within.
     
  15. bad seed Banned Banned

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    <Baelish01>
     
  16. EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    Baelish is the grand schemer of game of thrones. He is the one who originally spread the rumor that rhaegar had kidnapped lyanna 15 years prior to the events of the show. He is the one who convinced Lysa Tully to kill Jon Arryn. His actions have always been anti-Ned Stark.
     
  17. smooth assassin Brown Belt

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    Stannis is the rightful heir
     
  18. El Chimpo Cruel Man Platinum Member

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    Was*

    Now he sits dead under a tree
     
  19. smooth assassin Brown Belt

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    Nope, IS still alive in the books
    Those fucks on the show didn’t deserve him as a character, I follow the books for the true ending
     
  20. Vergilius Brown Belt

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    As far as I understand it, his long term goal was to sit on the either throne himself or at least to control whoever sat on it - and with either Caitlyn or Sansa at his side. If Ned got to be in charge that would be unachievable, and he could probably imagine no greater horror than to see his rival in control of the realm.

    His only chance to win the big prize is an all consuming civil war. The one thing I don't like about his storyline is how weak his powerbase is. The Vale has no real loyalty to him - he's completely dependent on charming its ruler. Being away from her as much as he is would put him in a precarious position.
     

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