One thing that always bugged me about GoT series one (GoT brahs get in here) *SPOILERS*

[Anung Un Rama]

Betraying Ned was smart thing to do.
He would never had ascended so high under his or Stannis' rule. Only the corrupt Lannisters would bargain with him.
His only mistake was letting himself get played by fucking Sansa of all people. Honey potted to death.

 

[El Chimpo]

Nope, IS still alive in the books
Those fucks on the show didn’t deserve him as a character, I follow the books for the true ending

No way he becomes king even in the books

He was awesome in the show tho

 

[bad seed]

Nope, IS still alive in the books
Those fucks on the show didn’t deserve him as a character, I follow the books for the true ending

I read the manuscript for GRR's final book and it reveals that Stannis is not only the Prince Who Was Promised but also the Mother of Dragons.

 

[smooth assassin]

No way he becomes king even in the books

He was awesome in the show tho

You’re right, I just love that character and hated that they wrote him off killing Shireen

 

[El Chimpo]

You’re right, I just love that character and hated that they wrote him off killing Shireen

His stubborness was awesome..and his stoicness

Still cant rewatch the shireen scene smh

 

[smooth assassin]

I read the manuscript for GRR's final book and it reveals that Stannis is not only the Prince Who Was Promised but also the Mother of Dragons.

i read that he is the step mother of the dragons because in the next book the lgbt is making a stand and fighting for the rightful heir

 

[smooth assassin]

I don’t read much, but I encourage anyone who likes the series to read the books, it’s a beautiful experience (I know it sounds corny, but I don’t know how else to describe it)

 

[Headkicktoleg]

His objective was to get back at Ned for stealing the woman of his dreams and also defend the world into chaos so he could make moves up in the vail

 

[bad seed]

I don’t read much, but I encourage anyone who likes the series to read the books, it’s a beautiful experience (I know it sounds corny, but I don’t know how else to describe it)

aside from the Daenarys and Ironborn chapters. They are somehow even more tedious in the books.

 

[zapataxiv]

my take on it was Peters plan was to dishonor ned by making him take the black and then maneuvering into power in the river lands with himself ultimately ending up in power of the northern armies and being the main threat to the Lannisters. Hoping that the Lannisters would continue to slide into disfavor and his knowledge of their goldmines running dry gave him the confidence that they would run out of money eventually (breaking the whole a Lannister always pays his debts thing).
he got fucked over because he didn't estimate Geofferys total lack of ability to rule and short sidedness by not letting ned take the black and instead executing him and provoking the war, and Neds sons rise despite everybody else underestimating him.

i think it also fits into his character because he prized himself on cunning but at his core he couldn't overcome his past losses so his ultimate path to power would over the man who was pristine and had taken his true love. the victory would not just be that mans murder but to totally dishoner him and make him look worse than Baelish the whoremaster.

 

[smooth assassin]

aside from the Daenarys and Ironborn chapters. They are somehow even more tedious in the books.

i don’t know how you came to that conclusion, the books shit on the show

 

[Skarr]

"Chaos is a ladder"
Little Finger is all about stirring shit up. He causes trouble, watches people panic, and then seizes upon opportunity to better himself.
He positions himself to get promoted in the world a step at a time. He isn't a born nobleman, he moved up inch by inch.

this

Baelish hates the Starks because they took Catelyn from him. Can betray Ned, then betray, and cause subterfuge amongst the other realms, and then no one be left to fight the Lannisters, and then he just take the Lannisters apart from within.

youre not wrong but insofar as Ive read in this thread, youre all missing the point that NO ONE thought that Ned was going to lose his head, even Cersi did a jaw drop when Joff ordered off with Bean's bean, they all assumed that Ned would eventually be sent to the wall and forced to take the black which would put him entirely out of the throne affairs and would effectively end his marriage((a key point for finger))

the entire story would have been waaaaaaaaaaay different((and still awesome)) if Ned had been at the wall for everything that Snow was

Baelish is the grand schemer of game of thrones. He is the one who originally spread the rumor that rhaegar had kidnapped lyanna 15 years prior to the events of the show. He is the one who convinced Lysa Tully to kill Jon Arryn. His actions have always been anti-Ned Stark.

I must have missed something, is that actually established that she killed Arryn?

Nope, IS still alive in the books
Those fucks on the show didn’t deserve him as a character, I follow the books for the true ending

the last book ends right before/as Stannis was killed on the show.

 

[benebox]

Can’t outsmart the 3 eyed raven. RIP

 

[smooth assassin]

the last book ends right before/as Stannis was killed on the show.[/QUOTE]

Doesn’t really matter, the stories are completely different at that point anyways, I doubt the books will have any of the same conclusions

 

[SammyPops]

You know what bugs me? The last couple books suck and have taken like a decade to be published.

I am over this series.

Stil rustled af that Kingkiller book 3 is in the wind. Fucking asshole writters.

Oh, and the game3 book 3 too!

 

[ralphc1]

His objective was to get back at Ned for stealing the woman of his dreams and also defend the world into chaos so he could make moves up in the vail

this


youre not wrong but insofar as Ive read in this thread, youre all missing the point that NO ONE thought that Ned was going to lose his head, even Cersi did a jaw drop when Joff ordered off with Bean's bean, they all assumed that Ned would eventually be sent to the wall and forced to take the black which would put him entirely out of the throne affairs and would effectively end his marriage((a key point for finger))

the entire story would have been waaaaaaaaaaay different((and still awesome)) if Ned had been at the wall for everything that Snow was

I must have missed something, is that actually established that she killed Arryn?

the last book ends right before/as Stannis was killed on the show.

Remember that Catelynn was supposed to marry Brandon Stark, Neds older brother who was killed by the Mad King. Ned married her out of a sense of duty. These were arranged marriages to unite houses. We don't know if Catelynn loved Brandon or if she had any feelings for Baelish.

Lysa admits killing her husband it in these scenes. 5:10 in the first one. You have to watch them on YouTube so they aren't time stamped.

 

[Turkleton]

if he backed up Ned then Stannis would've become the king and Baelish would've lost his position as master of coin because Stannis doesn't like him.

he also had a personal feud with Ned because he is banging Cat and Littlefinger has been in love with her almost his entire life.

on top of that he didn't give a fuck whether the Lannisters win or lose the war, he just needed to create war/chaos to further his own plans

 

[LukeSkyrocker]

Ok so there's obviously spoilers ahead if you've never seen a lick of this series so don't read this and cry later.

OK so in GoT, series one one of the major twists is Ned confronting Cersei/Joffrey in the throne room with the letter from Robert Baratheon that says he should rule until Joffrey is of age. He also confronts them with the incest bomb. Ned does this because he has assurances from Baelish that the city watch(who Baelish controls) will back him up and arrest the fake queen mother/king but PLOT TWIST....Baelish betrays him, holds a knife to his throat, SIKE!!!! I told you not to trust me!!!

Much is made in the series of what a schemer Baelish is and how strategic his movements are. If you take that into consideration THERE IS ZERO FUCKING REASON why he should've betrayed Ned. Why you ask? Well let me go into it...

First off, Baelish would've known that this little stunt would've resulted in Ned being arrested and charged as a traitor, he would've KNOWN that this would've enraged the North, but hey who cares right? I mean they're only frequently referred to as the toughest SOBs in Westeros, and there's only tens of thousands of them, I mean there's always the 6 other kingdoms to support the Lannisters in any ensuing war, right? NOPE...

The North - obviously would've had their boy Ned's back and this comes true in the show when the kid Robb literally secedes from the entire union and invades the south because of this event. Baelish knew this would happen.

The Stormlands - Before he enters the throne room, Baelish tells Ned that Renly was spotted leaving the capital with 100 men or something. He KNEW that Renly or Stannis would have control of this area and would've backed the anti Lannister forces so they would be no support for the throne, especially seeing as how Stannis was now the rightful heir.

What about Dorne? Nope...it was open knowledge that Dorne hated the Lannisters because of what happened to their princess on Tywin's orders, they would've ignore any calls for help from the capital, maybe even taken up arms against them, probably not though as Doran was a wimp.

But surely the Reach, right? Another big old NOPE. All of their armies joined up with Renly (and then Stannis) because Renly was fucking that tween Loras. Baelish knew the Reach would likely join renly's cause against the Lannisters.

Surely the Riverlands...of course fucking not, they wouldn't have gone against Ned because of his wife, again would've been more likely to join the North in rebellion. again, Baelish knew this shit!

Anyone left? Oh yeah, the Vale, another kingdom who hated the Lannisters and Lyssa Arryn was Ned's sister in law. There's a chance Baelish might've been able to get them onside as Lyssa was obthethed with him but stand against her own sister?

Taking all this into account Baelish's decision to betray Ned was possibly the most retarded strategic political decision ever made. He basically rolled the dice that the Lannister army from the Westerlands would be able to hold the throne with almost the whole rest of the country against him and ALSO that nobody would find out about his treachery. Oh but Tywin was so rich and could hire mercenaries, right? NOPE. As master of coin, he knew that the Lannisters gold mines had run dry and that they were borrowing money from the Iron Bank to make ends meet so this wouldn't have figured into any decision on his part.

Maybe I'm missing something here but if Baelish had any sense he would've bribed the city watch to back Ned up and arrest Cersei/Joffrey, maybe I'm getting a little sentimental about my boy Ned here...

...but it was a horrific decision when taking the facts into account. If GoT was any way realistic the Lannisters should've got merked, they had no allies and 3/4 armies against them from all sides, that's an unwinnable war, but they pulled out the win because of Mary Sue syndrome.

Of course that does lead us down the path that Baelish wanted all of these kingdoms in open rebellion so the Lannisters were deposed but if so, why not just back Ned up and get rid of the Lannisters there and then?

TLDR;

- Baelish's decision to betray Ned made no sense strategically as the Lannisters had no allies and arresting him/putting him in jail resulted in 3 or 4 kingdoms in open rebellion against them.

Thoughts?

Don’t you remember that scene where Littlefinger says “chaos is a ladder?” He has no actual allegiances, but he knows by getting everyone else at each others throats he can improve his own position in the ensuing chaos. Which he does when he is granted Harrenhal, then uses that as a stepping stone to become Lord of the Vale.

 

[Skarr]

Remember that Catelynn was supposed to marry Brandon Stark, Neds older brother who was killed by the Mad King. Ned married her out of a sense of duty. These were arranged marriages to unite houses. We don't know if Catelynn loved Brandon or if she had any feelings for Baelish.

Lysa admits killing her husband it in these scenes. 5:10 in the first one. You have to watch them on YouTube so they aren't time stamped.

thats right I remember now on the show....but was it ever said in the books?((the show at this point is almost a different story))

 

[moreorless87]

Betraying Ned was smart thing to do.
He would never had ascended so high under his or Stannis' rule. Only the corrupt Lannisters would bargain with him.
His only mistake was letting himself get played by fucking Sansa of all people. Honey potted to death.

He rightly saw as well that Joffery was a good opportunity to gain influence, a young king who's ego could be played too easily unlike Stannis or Renly, maybe Tywin takes control for awhile as hand but he was already old.

I'd say really the intension of the story is that Littlefinger loses because in the end he cares about power more than Sansa, if he'd stayed onside at the retaking on Winterfell he might potentially have been able to win her(or at least get her married to Robin and become her advisor/lover) but looking to use her to unseat Jon ultimately costs him.