Movies Once Upon a Time in America (4hr 11min cut)

[Highway99]

Has anyone the cut with 20 minutes of added footage from 2012? Love this movie, but have never seen this version. I hesitate to watch it online but I found it here for anyone interested:

 

[HHJ]

The director said one time that someone who was a huge fan of his told him "Master! you MUST tell me what the ending means! Wait! dont tell me!" and walked off. Like the mystery of it was was better for him, wondering what it really meant

 

[Bullitt68]

They're deleted scenes, and they feel like deleted scenes. The 229-minute cut is the cut.

 

[Jesus X]

What I like about this movie is that they show how evil an actual gangster is they don't romantize it

 

[Highway99]

They're deleted scenes, and they feel like deleted scenes. The 229-minute cut is the cut.

I wish they found the lost Cannes cut. Or better yet the version that was 2 3 hour movies..

I recently got Christopher Frayling's most recent Leone book, can't wait till I get to the part about this movie.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Super underrated. One of the true GOATs in the mafia genre.

For me, it's right after Godfather I, II, and Goodfellas.

 

[Roids]

Nah overrated. Tried hard to be a sprawling epic but I found it quite flat and over cooked. Just because a movie is long with a great cast and director does not make it great.

 

[Bullitt68]

I wish they found the lost Cannes cut. Or better yet the version that was 2 3 hour movies..

I'm fuzzy on the history now (and lazily watching The X-Files and don't want to Google) but I don't think there were that many different actual cuts. Leone had different ideas, including two connected but separate 3-hour epics, but I think it was just this super long one, then the 229-minute one, then the chopped up garbage one. What is the Cannes cut if not this 251-minute version? And I don't think he ever actually had or cut together 6 coherent hours; I think that was just an idea he had along the way. Could be wrong, though...

I recently got Christopher Frayling's most recent Leone book, can't wait till I get to the part about this movie.

...and please correct me if I am

What I like about this movie is that they show how evil an actual gangster is they don't romantize it

Super underrated. One of the true GOATs in the mafia genre.

For me, it's right after Godfather I, II, and Goodfellas.

Nah overrated. Tried hard to be a sprawling epic but I found it quite flat and over cooked. Just because a movie is long with a great cast and director does not make it great.

I'm in the underrated camp, to the point where this isn't just the GOAT mafia/crime film, it's simply one of the GOAT films. Better than both the Godfathers by a lot, better than Goodfellas and Casino, even better than Heat (but not by much). It's such a complete film, by which I mean you really feel like you've followed these characters through their entire lives. And you're right, Jesus X, they're downright pieces of shit, vicious thugs, and that's not only a refreshing change of pace (they're not good kids just taking over the "family" business like in The Godfather, and they're not super charming or living fantasy-type lifestyles like Scorsese stuff) but it's all the more impressive that Leone still hits you in the feels with their friendship and with what they experience/endure, especially De Niro's Noodles. And then there's the gorgeous cinematography, the ingenious editing, and the GOAT film score. It's a masterpiece and even calling it that seems to underrate it in my book.

 

[Natural Order]

I'm fuzzy on the history now (and lazily watching The X-Files and don't want to Google) but I don't think there were that many different actual cuts. Leone had different ideas, including two connected but separate 3-hour epics, but I think it was just this super long one, then the 229-minute one, then the chopped up garbage one. What is the Cannes cut if not this 251-minute version? And I don't think he ever actually had or cut together 6 coherent hours; I think that was just an idea he had along the way. Could be wrong, though...



...and please correct me if I am





I'm in the underrated camp, to the point where this isn't just the GOAT mafia/crime film, it's simply one of the GOAT films. Better than both the Godfathers by a lot, better than Goodfellas and Casino, even better than Heat (but not by much). It's such a complete film, by which I mean you really feel like you've followed these characters through their entire lives. And you're right, Jesus X, they're downright pieces of shit, vicious thugs, and that's not only a refreshing change of pace (they're not good kids just taking over the "family" business like in The Godfather, and they're not super charming or living fantasy-type lifestyles like Scorsese stuff) but it's all the more impressive that Leone still hits you in the feels with their friendship and with what they experience/endure, especially De Niro's Noodles. And then there's the gorgeous cinematography, the ingenious editing, and the GOAT film score. It's a masterpiece and even calling it that seems to underrate it in my book.

Are you implying Heat is better than both Godfathers here?

 

[Roids]

I'm in the underrated camp, to the point where this isn't just the GOAT mafia/crime film, it's simply one of the GOAT films. Better than both the Godfathers by a lot, better than Goodfellas and Casino, even better than Heat (but not by much).

Now you are getting carried away. My memory of it was it postured as a great mafia epic but the scenes and characters were quite flat. Not in the class of those movies.

 

[Highway99]

I'm fuzzy on the history now (and lazily watching The X-Files and don't want to Google) but I don't think there were that many different actual cuts. Leone had different ideas, including two connected but separate 3-hour epics, but I think it was just this super long one, then the 229-minute one, then the chopped up garbage one. What is the Cannes cut if not this 251-minute version? And I don't think he ever actually had or cut together 6 coherent hours; I think that was just an idea he had along the way. Could be wrong, though...



...and please correct me if I am

You may be exactly right...From what I can gather, Leone had somewhere between 8-10 hours of footage. And before studio intervention was going to (or did) assemble a 6 hour version which he felt was essential to tell the story. Joe Pesci's sudden disappearance after his brief yet ominous presence at the hospital lead some to believe that a fair chuck of what was cut had to do with his character and mob/union relations.

Hopefully the book will clear up my questions, but it will be a while...the thing is one big ass son of a bitch.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Are you implying Heat is better than both Godfathers here?

Oh stuck around, my good bud @Bullitt68 has some profound film opinions.


We need @Madmick in here to really get this going.


Personally I’m only lukewarm on this film and I definitely don’t find it to be better than The Godfather 1 and 2, nor Heat, Goodfellas, Casino and a few others in the genre

 

[Bullitt68]

Are you implying Heat is better than both Godfathers here?

No implying necessary -- it's better. By a lot. The Godfather is massively overrated, easily one of the 5 or 10 most overrated movies ever. That doesn't mean it's bad - it's not, it's an amazing film - but it's nowhere near as gobsmackingly awesome as lots of people say it is. Aside from Diane Keaton being terrible, James Caan being way too hammy and silly, and the unnecessarily long Michael-in-Italy shit, it's just a bit dull. The Godfather II solved the dull problem, it's paced better IMO, but it's also quite overrated.

Heat, by contrast, is three hours yet it feels like it goes by in an hour. It's so densely packed with character information and thematic material, yet every piece is organic, relevant, and powerful. Literally every single person that shows up onscreen turns in a phenomenal performance and gives life to an incredibly rich character. And the cinematic craftsmanship is off the fucking charts. Oh, and it also boasts arguably the greatest action sequence in film history (if it's not the GOAT, it's second only to the chariot race in Ben-Hur).

Heat > Every crime movie not Once Upon a Time in America

Now you are getting carried away. My memory of it was it postured as a great mafia epic but the scenes and characters were quite flat. Not in the class of those movies.

How many times have you seen it and when was the last time? I grew up loving and endlessly rewatching Goodfellas and Casino, but over time, Once Upon a Time in America eclipsed them both. It's just so tragically beautiful. That scene when Noodles comes back after 30 years and visits with Moe ("Been going to bed early"), it's one of the most heartbreakingly written and acted scenes in movies. When Noodles is explaining to Max how if they have a boss then Noodles might one day be ordered to kill Max and that's unacceptable, that's a more powerful scene of friendship - of believable, earned friendship - than anything in Goodfellas or Casino. (Though I do love the scene in Casino when Sharon Stone is trying to convince Joe Pesci to kill De Niro and he snaps, "I know the fucking guy 35 years, I'm gonna fucking whack him for you?!") Their childhood as small time hoods rising the ranks, showing their cleverness and entrepreneurial spirit, it's better than the super cheesy kid shit in A Bronx Tale. Noodles' fucked up relationship with Deborah is so much more devastating than Pacino's at times grating conflicts with Keaton in The Godfather II and more believable and therefore heartbreaking than Ray Liotta's and Lorraine Bracco's relationship in Goodfellas or De Niro's and Stone's relationship in Casino. And the sense of betrayal at the end but also the futility of grudges at such an old age, played stupendously by De Niro as an old man with bad eyesight, it makes the Fredo kiss seem silly. Again, I'm not shitting on these other great films, I'm just trying to emphasize how amazing I think Once Upon a Time in America is by stating how by comparison it's light years beyond the competition in virtually every respect.

You may be exactly right...From what I can gather, Leone had somewhere between 8-10 hours of footage. And before studio intervention was going to (or did) assemble a 6 hour version which he felt was essential to tell the story. Joe Pesci's sudden disappearance after his brief yet ominous presence at the hospital lead some to believe that a fair chuck of what was cut had to do with his character and mob/union relations.

Hopefully the book will clear up my questions, but it will be a while...the thing is one big ass son of a bitch.

That's kind of what I'm getting at: I don't need more Pesci. I wouldn't be mad at more Pesci, but that cameo is perfect: It establishes him as a potential boss, it motivates the robbery storyline, and then when we see him again briefly at the hospital we understand the implications of his presence. But I don't need a whole GTA-esque series of "missions" with Pesci and his outfit. Leone's 229-minute edit is the Goldilocks version: Not too long and bloated and with too many distracting storylines and not too short without enough stakes, character development, and thematic tie-ins/payoffs. It's just right, a sweeping crime epic that's also a beautiful and intimate story of friendship, love, loyalty, and betrayal.

Oh stuck around, my good bud @Bullitt68 has some profound film opinions.

We need @Madmick in here to really get this going.

I don't remember us disagreeing too strongly on anything except The Dark Knight Rises. But he knows I'm right on that one

 

[Highway99]

How many times have you seen it and when was the last time? I grew up loving and endlessly rewatching Goodfellas and Casino, but over time, Once Upon a Time in America eclipsed them both. It's just so tragically beautiful. That scene when Noodles comes back after 30 years and visits with Moe ("Been going to bed early"), it's one of the most heartbreakingly written and acted scenes in movies. When Noodles is explaining to Max how if they have a boss then Noodles might one day be ordered to kill Max and that's unacceptable, that's a more powerful scene of friendship - of believable, earned friendship - than anything in Goodfellas or Casino. (Though I do love the scene in Casino when Sharon Stone is trying to convince Joe Pesci to kill De Niro and he snaps, "I know the fucking guy 35 years, I'm gonna fucking whack him for you?!") Their childhood as small time hoods rising the ranks, showing their cleverness and entrepreneurial spirit, it's better than the super cheesy kid shit in A Bronx Tale. Noodles' fucked up relationship with Deborah is so much more devastating than Pacino's at times grating conflicts with Keaton in The Godfather II and more believable and therefore heartbreaking than Ray Liotta's and Lorraine Bracco's relationship in Goodfellas or De Niro's and Stone's relationship in Casino. And the sense of betrayal at the end but also the futility of grudges at such an old age, played stupendously by De Niro as an old man with bad eyesight, it makes the Fredo kiss seem silly. Again, I'm not shitting on these other great films, I'm just trying to emphasize how amazing I think Once Upon a Time in America is by stating how by comparison it's light years beyond the competition in virtually every respect.

Good points here...Given its themes Once Upon a Time in America is a movie just gets more relatable and poignant the older you get. I loved it from the first time I saw it, but now at my age I'm staggered every time I watch it, or think about it or hear its music.

 

[ricc505]

Good points here...Given its themes Once Upon a Time in America is a movie just gets more relatable and poignant the older you get. I loved it from the first time I saw it, but now at my age I'm staggered every time I watch it, or think about it or hear its music.

As a leone fan I sought out once upon a time in America and I really enjoyed my first viewing but I agree with you that the movie has become much more enjoyable as I age

 

[HHJ]

 

[HereticBD]

I think this movie is both underrated and overrated.

 

[Bullitt68]

View attachment 1120089

Cock insurance.

 

[Highway99]

Here's the score just cuz why not:

 

[Bullitt68]

Here's the score just cuz why not:

And so cool that Morricone had the score done before Leone even started filming, so the whole shoot Leone had the music playing on set. Much easier for the actors to get into that headspace and to hit those emotions with that music playing.