oly lifts for bros and the powerlifter

[zapataxiv]

I wanted to ask y'all your opinions on the importance and effectiveness of lifts like the cleans, snatches, pulls and presses.

as an average American I never learned them and wasn't even seeing them until cross fit really hit.

I have been coming around lately and I have been really starting to appreciate how much power they can develop

but as a know nothing looking to know something here are some things I was pawndering

1. how important of a raw strength developer are they
2. how important to general athletics is learning explosive lifts compared to some of the other answers we have
3. how effective are they for building some good muscles and staying in shape
4. is taking the time to learn complex form and movements worth it in he long run
5. is being able to throw weight around transferable to other sports more than power lifting and BB strength?

 

[zapataxiv]

I forgot to add the mobility that is needed to perform oly lifts seems like it could also be very important. bit how does it compare to mobility work

 

[ROcknrollracing]

1. generally you would be doing other lifts than just olympic lifts to build raw strength
2. are they necessary? no but they are very beneficial
3. they aren't the best muscle building lifts
4. absolutely
5.absolutely

 

[deadshot138]

Squats and presses will be the primary strength builders in an oly program. Mobility is very important.

 

[zapataxiv]

1. generally you would be doing other lifts than just olympic lifts to build raw strength
2. are they necessary? no but they are very beneficial
3. they aren't the best muscle building lifts
4. absolutely
5.absolutely

great so what about for people who are already in the gym following power lifting or bro stuff how could they benefit those types

Squats and presses will be the primary strength builders in an oly program. Mobility is very important.

do you hint any of the power lifting base lifts could be replaced or could cleans and stuff be additional accessory work?
I noticed that the original bill star 5x5 was squats bench and cleans I don't think row so and sohp were part of it

 

[maximus__]

great so what about for people who are already in the gym following power lifting or bro stuff how could they benefit those types

do you hint any of the power lifting base lifts could be replaced or could cleans and stuff be additional accessory work?
I noticed that the original bill star 5x5 was squats bench and cleans I don't think row so and sohp were part of it

The time to learn proper oly lifting is probably spent somewhere else unless the actual process of learning is the goal.

it takes ages to develop the skill and technique of learning a snatch for example. That time would probably be better spent doing jumping, DB snatches or kettlebell snatches/swings. You could muscle through some power cleans or high pulls with much less technique work and get most of the benefits as another option. Ross Enameit used to use Dumbells for his Oly style movements and still did things like snatches and split jerks. I think that would be better to be honest.

In the end it comes down to if you want to compete in Oly lifting or just enjoy developing a new skill.

 

[zapataxiv]

The time to learn proper oly lifting is probably spent somewhere else unless the actual process of learning is the goal.

it takes ages to develop the skill and technique of learning a snatch for example. That time would probably be better spent doing jumping, DB snatches or kettlebell snatches/swings. You could muscle through some power cleans or high pulls with much less technique work and get most of the benefits as another option. Ross Enameit used to use Dumbells for his Oly style movements and still did things like snatches and split jerks. I think that would be better to be honest.

In the end it comes down to if you want to compete in Oly lifting or just enjoy developing a new skill.

that is what I have been experimenting with is doing high pulls and cleans with push press and other movements. O don't plan on snatches as that is pretty intimidating. but I also think other accessory movements could be beneficial
like overhead squats, sots press, high pulls etc ...

edit also the mobility and explosive ness could be beneficial too

 

[usernamee]

Yeah learning how to clean is plenty (on top of squats etc) I'd say. I don't think you'd gain that much from learning how to jerk the weight.

In hockey the clean is utilized a lot for players in training

 

[KnightTemplar]

Power Cleans are awesome and, compared to the Oly Lifts, relatively easy to learn. They are often used by athletes such as American Football and Rugby players who need to develop explosive power.

As others have already said, unless you actually want to compete in Oly Lifting, I don't see the point in training Snatch and C&J.

 

[deadshot138]

great so what about for people who are already in the gym following power lifting or bro stuff how could they benefit those types

do you hint any of the power lifting base lifts could be replaced or could cleans and stuff be additional accessory work?
I noticed that the original bill star 5x5 was squats bench and cleans I don't think row so and sohp were part of it

Yeah there's all kinds of skill based exercises like the squat balance and tall clean that round out an Olympic program. Obviously front squats will be huge also, and overhead squats.

 

[maximus__]

that is what I have been experimenting with is doing high pulls and cleans with push press and other movements. O don't plan on snatches as that is pretty intimidating. but I also think other accessory movements could be beneficial
like overhead squats, sots press, high pulls etc ...

edit also the mobility and explosive ness could be beneficial too

I actually prefer to do high pulls, jerks and hang snatches with a Dumbells. Even swings feel more like a barbell clean or snatch when done with Dumbells.

If you aren't competing, the barbell isn;t really worth chasing as an athlete unless your Dumbells options are limited.


Snatch for example: Don't do the CrossFit high rep style, do it for heavy low reps and catch the weight in a power snatch position.
The kettlebell clean form is wrong, so ignore that.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I'll be the contrarian and say that barbell snatch and C&J are absolutely worth learning for the average gym bro, but agree with @ROcknrollracing that SBD should be your primary lifts for overall size and strength.

That said, learning oly lifts will improve your SBD form and the greater mobility and ROM required for oly lifts are a GOOD thing that will make you more athletic. Being able to drop into a deep front squat (as for cleans) with your torso upright will make back squats easier, and deep overhead squats (as for snatch) even more so. They will also improve your posture and make you more resistant to injury.

I think most folks can probably learn rudimentary C&J by watching youtube videos and recording their own lifts. But snatch is technical AF and I don't recommend trying to teach yourself as I did - you will just fuck it up and ingrain bad habits. Start with an oly coach like I eventually did and do at least 4 or 5 sessions. A knowledgeable coach will critique your form based on your specific body proportions and give you cues to keep you on track.

 

[Porch_Rabbit]

I don’t do any Olympic lifts these days as I don’t do any sports at my age and I’m just not too concerned with being at peak ‘athleticism.” Back during college basketball over a decade ago, all I did was Olympic lifting. But my high school football o-line coach was an Olympic lifting coach so I learned good form early on.

But if you are an athlete or in sport, I would 100% be incorporating the easier/simpler Olympic lifts at the very least. With no background, I would at least do power or hang cleans (rather than full clean and jerk), power/hang snatch, and push press. These versions require minimal time learning form vs the full versions, and as an athlete in sport, the time learning the full versions is possibly better spent on the sport if you have no background. But the power/hang versions are more than good enough. Can even just do them prior to the regular routine each day if doing a more traditional powerlifting routine.

During college basketball, my measurable traits like vertical jump were significantly higher when Olympic lifting consistently vs doing power lifting routines.

Edit to add, as someone stated, don’t do the cross fit version. Try to be explosive with lower reps (and higher sets if needed). Don’t be doing these lifts for high reps.

 

[Ballsaque]

They are way too hard to learn and too high injury rate to be actually worth doing, unless you want to learn them to.. well.. do them.

Power and hang cleans should be good though

 

[ROcknrollracing]

You do not have to have perfect form like a true Olympic lifter to get a benefit and the time spent doing so would be detrimental to your own focus sports. If you do the full lifts enough your technique will eventually work itself out to "good enough". Practicing the full lifts make your powers better. There are times for both the full lifts and power or even pulls.

 

[Ballsaque]

You do not have to have perfect form like a true Olympic lifter to get a benefit and the time spent doing so would be detrimental to your own focus sports. If you do the full lifts enough your technique will eventually work itself out to "good enough". Practicing the full lifts make your powers better. There are times for both the full lifts and power or even pulls.

Yes otherwise you can injury your shit. Terrible advice.

 

[Oblivian]

As someone who is an older lifter now (42), I'd say being able to do oly lifts still keeps me able to move better than most my age. I know a lot of people around my age who can still lift, but they can't really move well. You notice it a lot at youth sports when dads can't get into a squat to catch a pitcher, can't really jump anymore in basketball, move laterally in drills, etc.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Yes otherwise you can injury your shit. Terrible advice.

You do not know what you are talking about. Poof be gone!!!!

 

[zapataxiv]

As someone who is an older lifter now (42), I'd say being able to do oly lifts still keeps me able to move better than most my age. I know a lot of people around my age who can still lift, but they can't really move well. You notice it a lot at youth sports when dads can't get into a squat to catch a pitcher, can't really jump anymore in basketball, move laterally in drills, etc.

that's something I am worried about too
after having kids and getting heavieri I really noticed how limited my movements have become
I want to feel mobile and athletic not just bully and slow

 

[Baby Hanma]

I wanted to ask y'all your opinions on the importance and effectiveness of lifts like the cleans, snatches, pulls and presses.

as an average American I never learned them and wasn't even seeing them until cross fit really hit.

I have been coming around lately and I have been really starting to appreciate how much power they can develop

but as a know nothing looking to know something here are some things I was pawndering

1. how important of a raw strength developer are they
2. how important to general athletics is learning explosive lifts compared to some of the other answers we have
3. how effective are they for building some good muscles and staying in shape
4. is taking the time to learn complex form and movements worth it in he long run
5. is being able to throw weight around transferable to other sports more than power lifting and BB strength?

For your first question...

Back squats, front squats, and pulls, which are all staples in Olympic lifting programs, will build as much strength as low bar squats, deadlifts, and good mornings in powerlifting programs. I hold the opinion that low bar squats done to depth will have more benefits, but most Olympic lifters never rely on them. But still, those three aforementioned will build strength. Not just explosiveness.

Second...

It depends. With a teachable athlete and a quality coach who can teach someone how to properly do a power clean, that athlete will get the full benefit of doing the power clean and become explosive as a result. For those who can't learn it or can't learn it fast enough, it isn't worth it. He should just stick to plyometrics or jump squats.

Third...

Staying in shape? Ummm... Avoid them and just have good nutrition and do cardio... Building muscle? It depends on which lift. The Olympic squat, AKA full squat, AKA ATG squat, AKA back squat, will build your quads better than anything else in human phenomenon. Front squats are a very close second. They will also build glutes well. Something like clean pulls and snatch pulls will build all your posterior chain just as well as a deadlift or a deadlift variation. And a clean pull or a snatch pull are gonna get your traps as high as a mountain. Presses will build your shoulders with the added benefit of making you more coordinated and working other muscles as well, but mostly the shoulders (front delts emphasized).

Fourth...

Yes. Even for non-Olympic lifters. But only if you're capable of learning them.The harsh reality is that some people just suck at them. I had a friend that I trained and he was hopelessly clumsy with the clean pull despite his efforts to learn it, while I had another friend who was able to do it after one minute of me teaching him. Those slower learners will need to invest on a truly good coach if they really want to learn it well. Otherwise, just stick to other exercises. Or you'll just get hurt.

Fifth...

It depends on your expectations. If you're a big, strong powerlifter who can't dunk a basketball at 5'10, don't expect to become a Mark Henry or a Shane Hammon just because you do power cleans for six months. But if you're a big, strong powerlifter who is 5'10 and is also an explosive athlete, then you will improve your explosive strength by a little bit, maybe enough to be able to dunk. Being explosive/powerful is 90% genetic. Some guys just got the hops.

However, if your expectations have more to do with being a stronger, more powerful, more athletic, more coordinated athlete in a football field, then Olympic lifting will turn you into that. In other words, it has a lot of benefits for most athletes, but won't magically turn you into a grasshopper if you never had that DNA.