''Old School'' Boxing Stances

[Tony Wolf]

Good to hear.

Out of curiosity, do any Western MA enthusiasts in the Northeast / Mid-Atlantic teach 19th century boxing these days?

Not that I can think of, sorry. The best US-based old-school pugilists I know of are Tim Ruzicki in Seattle and Ken Pfrenger (somewhere in the Midwest, IIRC); it's a pretty small subset of WMA revivalism.

 

[Goat Meal]

So you're getting all pissy because you feel the fight discussion is unbalanced? You're the one who came in here and made a comment intended to "poke fun" as you stated. I'm replying to you in a rather dry manner and yet you keep replying with what seems like bitter hostility.

I think you're mistaking my criticism of this sub-forum as criticism of you. Maybe that's because you own the failures of this board, I don't know, but just FYI, I'm not being hostile toward you at all. I just think the mentality of this place is silly and nothing indicates that more than a mod rabidly defending "his" stance from a jokester such as myself.

If the fact that some people like or prefer the classical stance chaps your ass, that's really your problem.

I think my problem is what I've already stated and in very clear terms. If you want to create a strawman, far be it from me to stop you.

Judging by not only your rhetoric, but your seeming over all view of this section of the board, I wonder how much time you really spend here.

Well put your pretty little head to rest, Luis. I spend very little time here. After today I'm sure it will be weeks before you have to worry about big bad Goat Meal roaming these parts, ruffling feathers and such.

I don't really care what stance you personally prefer or not, you've given your input and that's fine. I don't really think it needs to go as far as being slanderous.

Here I was, thinking you waited with baited breath to know MY opinion. I wouldn't dare. You are, after all, the great Luis from BloodyKnux boxing forum icon_lol and Sherdog fame.

 

[Cross_Trainer]

Not that I can think of, sorry. The best US-based old-school pugilists I know of are Tim Ruzicki in Seattle and Ken Pfrenger (somewhere in the Midwest, IIRC); it's a pretty small subset of WMA revivalism.

That's too bad. I would think it would be helpful to the Bartitsu revival project if more people were competing / experimenting in 19th century pugilism. (Just as MMA gyms usually benefit from bringing in coaches who explicitly specialize in striking, instead of a "Jack of All Trades...etc." approach).

 

[Tony Wolf]

That's too bad. I would think it would be helpful to the Bartitsu revival project if more people were competing / experimenting in 19th century pugilism. (Just as MMA gyms usually benefit from bringing in coaches who explicitly specialize in striking, instead of a "Jack of All Trades...etc." approach).

Yeah, that would be ideal. For practical purposes, the various instructors tend to meet up at seminars and conferences and the good stuff gets disseminated that way, but it takes a long time.

 

[Cross_Trainer]

Yeah, that would be ideal. For practical purposes, the various instructors tend to meet up at seminars and conferences and the good stuff gets disseminated that way, but it takes a long time.

I wonder...

Given that 19th century boxing is extremely well documented and already used a "points" approach for amateur matches, I wonder whether (possibly full-contact, possibly less than full contact) points competitions with smaller gloves would be helpful.

Only historically accurate punches would be scored, to avoid talented guys from modern boxing from sweeping through. Throws scored as multiple points, like the takedowns in Sanda. Standing guillotines as the only legal submission. Not sure how you'd handle chancery punching, though...

 

[Sinister]

I think you're mistaking my criticism of this sub-forum as criticism of you. Maybe that's because you own the failures of this board, I don't know, but just FYI, I'm not being hostile toward you at all. I just think the mentality of this place is silly and nothing indicates that more than a mod rabidly defending "his" stance from a jokester such as myself.

I think my problem is what I've already stated and in very clear terms. If you want to create a strawman, far be it from me to stop you.

Well put your pretty little head to rest, Luis. I spend very little time here. After today I'm sure it will be weeks before you have to worry about big bad Goat Meal roaming these parts, ruffling feathers and such.

Here I was, thinking you waited with baited breath to know MY opinion. I wouldn't dare. You are, after all, the great Luis from BloodyKnux boxing forum icon_lol and Sherdog fame.

You yourself pointed out that I gave an account of neutrality. Who is defending what? It's more the manner with which you portray it. I don't really care about your criticism, as stated. If you get your jollies by trolling the interwebz in a condescending manner, it's all good. You can criticize me all you like as well, you'll notice I've taken no actual moderator disciplinary action against you. You're welcome to be who you are...whomever you are. Anonymity is pretty fun.

My criticism of you was that if you're going to argue against the classic stance, or bring whatever justice you feel is necessary to bring to the Stand-up Technique section of Sherdog, the least you could do is be coherent when making an observation on which to base your attempt at a "humorous" comment.

 

[Tony Wolf]

I wonder...

Given that 19th century boxing is extremely well documented and already used a "points" approach for amateur matches, I wonder whether (possibly full-contact, possibly less than full contact) points competitions with smaller gloves would be helpful.

Only historically accurate punches would be scored, to avoid talented guys from modern boxing from sweeping through. Throws scored as multiple points, like the takedowns in Sanda. Standing guillotines as the only legal submission. Not sure how you'd handle chancery punching, though...

That's basically the way inter- and intra-club sparring works, it's just that there are so few clubs.

A few years ago some guys on the Bullshido forum set up an experimental ruleset very much as you described and tried it out at a "throwdown" in Boston, IIRC. It went OK but, not having actually trained in the original style, they kept reflexively defaulting to their own training (Sanda and Muay Thai, IIRC) in terms of techniques. The ruleset worked, though; basically boxing with MMA gloves plus standing grappling/throws.

 

[Jukai]

Goat Meal, you really should sit this one out....

 

[Discipulus]

Some folks just have to be contrarian, even if they don't understand what they're disagreeing with.

 

[Castro Alves]

Some folks just have to be contrarian, even if they don't understand what they're disagreeing with.

It's called stupidity.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Some folks just have to be contrarian, even if they don't understand what they're disagreeing with.

Lol!!

Some good posts on here before the bitching started thou gents!

 

[Discipulus]

Agreed! Let's get back to talking about boxing.

 

[Wow Exuberant**]

A little bit off topic, but you can tell who's going to win this fight based off of this picture and their stances

As far as I remember Gilbert pretty much fights in that stance and same with Diego

 

[Jukai]

A little bit off topic, but you can tell who's going to win this fight based off of this picture and their stances

 

[Wow Exuberant**]

Alright maybe that was a little brash and based off the fact I think Diego is terrible nowadays and love Melendez but if you look at the square off that's pretty much how Diego stands during a fight, he's going to get lit up worse than Kampmann did.

 

[Jukai]

Alright maybe that was a little brash and based off the fact I think Diego is terrible nowadays and love Melendez but if you look at the square off that's pretty much how Diego stands during a fight, he's going to get lit up worse than Kampmann did.

He looks like he is hunched over like a wrestler. Which he is.

You can't tell anything from that picture. At all.

 

[Wow Exuberant**]

He looks like he is hunched over like a wrestler. Which he is.

You can't tell anything from that picture. At all.

Yes you can, watch Diego's fight with Penn. 90 percent of his weight on his front foot hunched over and just gets picked apart.


You can tell a lot just by looking at a person's stance.


(by the way I should have specified that I meant this in a Stand-up context, but I can't see this fight going to the ground unless Melendez wants it there)

 

[BlackMambaUFC]

Corbett's stance seemed to lean way back compared to Machida's stance though

Compared to

 

[BlackMambaUFC]

can someone tell me is machida's and corbett's head offline? doesn't seem like it to me

 

[RapeChokeBDSM**]

Just based on intuition, I'm going to say the head back/hips forward style was for that show style fighting that always took place within arms reach.

So habits from this extremely close style of fighting may have carried over when the ring size increased but just imagine trying to fight like that when you have enough room to shuffle around and tell me its practical.

edit: nevermind the intuition, Cross_Trainer posted the actual video