Ok kiddies, time for a lesson

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by CarnalSalvation, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. CarnalSalvation

    CarnalSalvation Trying to make a Milankey

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    No matter how good your routine is, no matter who made it, no matter who's book you read, you're still gonna have to do some thinking for yourself. There is no magic routine that's going to put a bunch of weight on you. No super-secret that's going to turn you into a powerhouse overnight.

    Much of lifting is trial and error. It takes time and patience. For example, on squats, does 5X5 work better for you than 3X3? How will you know if you don't try both?

    Articles are a great place to start, but they're really more to get the ball rolling than to spell strength training out a-z for you. Lifting is an art, not a science, and I think thats where many novices go wrong. It's like they want a chart of "do this for X reps and Y weight and so many sets and you'll get Z". It just doesn't work like that. The author of a fictional article might get to Z by adding Y and X, but in a setting as relative as the weightroom, you probably won't.
     
  2. bigdoggg

    bigdoggg Yellow Belt

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    What is this some type of vision you had that everyone thinks their doing the right workout but are not....
     
  3. ChUtEBoXWaNnAbE

    ChUtEBoXWaNnAbE Green Belt

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    never doubt Carnal

    makes good sense to me....ive have to mess with just about every rep/set scheme i use, trying to figure out whats best for me

    for some excersises i prefer different reps/sets....i would never have known unless i tried it out

    im fairly new to this game....i`d like to think im learning every day
     
  4. bigdoggg

    bigdoggg Yellow Belt

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    Im serious mofo..
     
  5. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    I agree with the thread starter.
     
  6. tokian

    tokian Orange Belt

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    This is simply the truth.

    Fighting, lifting, fucking, whatever you're doing, Carnal's present summation sums up the path.

    To bring it down to a thesis of my take:

    Just train. Train intelligently so as to reap proper benefits and stay safe while doing so, but fucking train. Read and talk for the knowledge to train as intelligently as possible for your goals, but keep it productive and simple. TRAIN !
     
  7. bigdoggg

    bigdoggg Yellow Belt

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    Did urban turn into a robot?
     
  8. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    well I would expand to say that with the right mindset and enough effort, everything will work for a while. and if you are currently using a routine that is working well for your goals, DON'T CHANGE! don't let some article throw you off and set you back to square one. There's a golden rule in electronics that I think is appropriate in many facets of life: if it works, don't fuck with it; if it doesn't work, go back to the last thing you fucked with.
     
  9. PariahCarey

    PariahCarey Purple Belt

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    Good point on being an art form...how/why you train is just as much of a signature as the clothes you wear or anything else...
     
  10. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I think there is a science that requires artful creativity to successfully incorporate.

    But as we move forward, the artfulness of it continues to diminish.
     
  11. rEmY

    rEmY Needs to eat more

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    agreed carnal.

    also, just to add something: a lot of times pro-fighters routines will get critiqued and the usual "well, it works for them" arguement pops up. yeah, well maybe something else would work better. my point is, is that even if youre following a sound routine and making gains, there's still a better routine out there. im not saying you should be switching all the times, but you shouldnt lock yourself into a routine if you feel theres something better. fuck, ive designed what i thought were solid routines, gotten two weeks in, said fuck it, and started all over again.
     
  12. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Wait, a minute, I got duped.

    This is just another way of saying, "Go lift."

    Goddamn you, Carnal.
     
  13. hughes

    hughes Beltless Bum

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    I disagree, but 3 months ago I would have agreed.

    It wasn't until I read dino training when I was sold on the whole artform thing. The way Brooks puts it is that science can't measure desire, hard work, determination etc. The very human factors of lifting that are basically the most important.
     
  14. Fedorable

    Fedorable 1/1024th Mod

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    Good point, train naked. If anyone complains, then tell them that powerlifting is an artform.

    I agree with the thread starting man.

    With routines, keeping things in perspective is good too. If you gained 5 lbs on your bench press for a year, that's 260 lbs. If you gained one pound on your bench per week, that is 50 lbs. Crazy.
     
  15. PariahCarey

    PariahCarey Purple Belt

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    Your using a too narrow defintiion of the word art Madmick. Someone's "style" is their art and your goals, what you put into, all those crazy intangibles,technique, science all shape style. Measurements can be empowring but they can also be limiting.
     
  16. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I just didn't realize we were including these other factors.

    I thought he was referring solely to program design.

    Siff himself used "art" in reference to program design. I'm too lazy to go find the quote.
     
  17. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

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    No one gets the formula right since you have to constantly learn
     
  18. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Really, this is an issue of semantics to me.

    Science itself is a sytem of reasoning: information gathering and processing. But the ability to interpret, manipulate, and apply that science will always require artfulness since science is incomplete.

    These theories founded in physiology and tested in gyms around the world are implemented in order to find out what most likely will improve the nondescript athlete's strength and conditioning: templates are assigned considering the current level of conditioning and the goals for improvement.

    Physiologies are too diverse for these templates to apply specifically to every person out there. Science is rooted in patterns, and patterns chart trends, not absolute truths.

    Science itself is an art. Philosophy subsumes art; art subsumes science. Science is just one other mean man has to acquire knowledge.

    It's just as fair for me to say that- if you tried a 5x5 routine and 3x3 routine and found the latter to better suit you- you have applied science to your routine. You have charted a pattern. Your are the only subject, but you are a subject. This is a science of one.
     
  19. Noskill

    Noskill Created Monkey

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    I think the most important thing between science and art on this topic is that science is a perpetual struggle to reach the truth. Art is about getting better at something you do. You don't absolutely need to go to school to learn to paint or play guitar. You just need to play consistently.

    Overthinking is the serious lifter worst enemy. If it works, don't change anything.
    There is so much information about lifting that is not relevant to being a better lifter.
     
  20. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

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    Don't you thik that the truth can be relative? Hence the several different approaches
     

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