Xbox Official Xbox thread

[The Clark]

BINGO.

MS is in a position that they could sell the handhelds at a loss and who wouldn't be down to join gamepass and get all those games on the go?!? Why wouldn't I get the 256GB Steam Deck and load in my Steam library?

Swing and a miss here.

To me, the big failure of this thing is that it doesn't even natively play Xbox games. They're only available through streaming. So, I couldn't even use it "on the go", because it would be worthless without a solid internet connection. I own dozens of games on Xbox, and this $1000 machine can play a whole 3 of them.

 

[Madmick]

If you subsidize Asus, that means you have to subsidize Lenovo, Acer, and MSI too. That adds up very fast since we aren't just talking handhelds at that point, but the entire PC market.

No, they don't. Why would they have to subsidize PC handhelds that don't carry the Xbox branding? Especially since the conditional logic there is subsidy corresponding to locking down the marketplace on the device. You're clearly not following the train of thought.

They could have released a proprietary version of Windows that only allowed the Xbox app for its marketplace (not Steam, Epic, etc). To play the open-source good guy, they could have permitted users to install a untethered version of Windows (or Linux) with a dual boot function like they already have, but not make this secondary mode work out of the box. Because you know that 98% of users will never set that up. Have your cake and eat it, too. You have pointed to the OS costing $70, but Microsoft makes Windows. With a proprietary OS they could forego this charge altogether to reduce the cost of the device to give it a major advantage over competitors on the marketplace. And by controlling the marketplace, they could choose to "take a bath" on hardware sales by subsidizing ASUS because the idea would be to make money on sales on the software market instead.

That approach was what I expected. Because it makes so much more sense than making a big deal of a handheld that nobody is gonna buy just to have it say "Xbox". This marginalizes the brand. Turns it into a joke.

 

[avenue94]

No, they don't. Why would they have to subsidize PC handhelds that don't carry the Xbox branding? Especially since the conditional logic there is subsidy corresponding to locking down the marketplace on the device. You're clearly not following the train of thought.

If Asus starts burying Lenovo and other brands, they will turn to Valve or deprioritize the handheld market. It's the other way, Asus is at least indirectly paying for the privilege of Xbox branding, not Microsoft paying for the privilege of putting the logo on ROG hardware.

There's no point in making a locked down Xbox device because it will get annihilated by HP's market share-focused Victus notebooks during the holidays (You don't need to be an expert to see the massive gains HP made in PC gaming sell out last year), as well as Steam Decks at that point. Not to mention a gaming notebook makes Windows more money than your idea since remaking an OS is hardly cheap.

You have pointed to the OS costing $70, but Microsoft makes Windows. With a proprietary OS they could forego this charge altogether to reduce the cost of the device to give it a major advantage over competitors on the marketplace. And by controlling the marketplace, they could choose to "take a bath" on hardware sales by subsidizing ASUS because the idea would be to make money on sales on the software market instead.

Asus doesn't have enough ODM capacity to support the play you are proposing, they couldn't even meet their own goals this year. Even in a magical world where production lines are easy to start up and swap between products, there's no financial upside to selling an Ally with worse margins versus a Zenbook, let alone a G14.

Making the a Game Pass only handheld also guts TAM, most people aren't going to buy a subscription just to use a handheld. You've automatically limited your TAM to under 40 million, and realistically a lot less since many of those subscribers play AAA titles that won't translate well to a handheld.

That approach was what I expected. Because it makes so much more sense than making a big deal of a handheld that nobody is gonna buy just to have it say "Xbox". This marginalizes the brand. Turns it into a joke.

I agree that Xbox as a brand is quite lost in the wilderness these days, but the context you're missing here is that gaming consoles are going to be closer to $1,000 next generation, and PCs are getting more expensive. Nvidia and Mediatek's notebooks with big APUs will start at over $1,200 mostly (4070ish performance) and the flagship ones are closer to $2,000 than $1,500 (5070 performance). The entry-level dGPU space is nearing the end and you'll see a shift in gaming prices from that.

 

[Madmick]

If Asus starts burying Lenovo and other brands, they will turn to Valve or deprioritize the handheld market. It's the other way, Asus is at least indirectly paying for the privilege of Xbox branding, not Microsoft paying for the privilege of putting the logo on ROG hardware.

There's no point in making a locked down Xbox device because it will get annihilated by HP's market share-focused Victus notebooks during the holidays (You don't need to be an expert to see the massive gains HP made in PC gaming sell out last year), as well as Steam Decks at that point. Not to mention a gaming notebook makes Windows more money than your idea since remaking an OS is hardly cheap.

Asus doesn't have enough ODM capacity to support the play you are proposing, they couldn't even meet their own goals this year. Even in a magical world where production lines are easy to start up and swap between products, there's no financial upside to selling an Ally with worse margins versus a Zenbook, let alone a G14.

Making the a Game Pass only handheld also guts TAM, most people aren't going to buy a subscription just to use a handheld. You've automatically limited your TAM to under 40 million, and realistically a lot less since many of those subscribers play AAA titles that won't translate well to a handheld.

I agree that Xbox as a brand is quite lost in the wilderness these days, but the context you're missing here is that gaming consoles are going to be closer to $1,000 next generation, and PCs are getting more expensive. Nvidia and Mediatek's notebooks with big APUs will start at over $1,200 mostly (4070ish performance) and the flagship ones are closer to $2,000 than $1,500 (5070 performance). The entry-level dGPU space is nearing the end and you'll see a shift in gaming prices from that.

What does this have to do with ASUS buying Lenovo? Why do you think it has to be ASUS at all? It could have been anyone. The endgame is to incentivize hardware manufacturers to move a product that creates more software sales for your gaming ecosystem. Historically, that's always been the bedrock of console revenue: the games.

Why are you comparing laptops to handhelds as if they are directly competing products?

Why would you assert that locking down the out-of-the-box OS to control its game marketplace-- which is what Steam Decks, Nintendos Switches, and Playstations do, btw-- would restrict your potential customer base to the 40m people who are already Game Pass subscribers? Those people already have devices, they don't need another. People aren't buying these devices to access Game Pass. That's not why people buy consoles. They just want an affordable plug-n-play system to play games.

No, $1K isn't at all the necessary starting price point for a large corporation with a viable strategy. The Steam Decks themselves are irrefutable proof of this.

 

[avenue94]

What does this have to do with ASUS buying Lenovo? Why do you think it has to be ASUS at all? It could have been anyone. The endgame is to incentivize hardware manufacturers to move a product that creates more software sales for your gaming ecosystem. Historically, that's always been the bedrock of console revenue: the games.

If you want an Xbox handheld in this year or next, your only options are Lenovo and Asus. No one else has anything ready to go at the volume Microsoft would need before putting their log on it.

Why are you comparing laptops to handhelds as if they are directly competing products?

Because when the option is a $800 handheld or a $500 Victus 15 with a -50 GPU, the latter is going to win most of those buys during the holidays. Segmentation fades away when the price difference gets that large.

Why would you assert that locking down the out-of-the-box OS to control its game marketplace-- which is what Steam Decks, Nintendos Switches, and Playstations do, btw-- would restrict your potential customer base to the 40m people who are already Game Pass subscribers? Those people already have devices, they don't need another. People aren't buying these devices to access Game Pass. That's not why people buy consoles. They just want an affordable plug-n-play system to play games.

Steam has a much larger library, and Nintendo and PlayStation have better exclusives and player loyalty at this point (PS also does PC obviously). Game Pass doesn't come close to the player bases of any of those three.

Someone isn't going to make their first Xbox Game Pass experience a handheld, they're much more likely going to come from Xbox or PC.

Handhelds are almost always secondary gaming devices, most owners have a PC or console first. No one is buying a Steam Deck instead of a console or gaming PC.

No, $1K isn't at all the necessary starting price point for a large corporation with a viable strategy. The Steam Decks themselves are irrefutable proof of this.

What do you think BOM of a gaming handheld is? That's what I meant earlier, lots of people in this thread have no idea what PCs cost to make these days.

And Valve has way better profitability and margins than Microsoft, doesn't need to share money with retailers, and it's private. That's why no one can take the bath Valve does on the Steam Deck.

 

[Madmick]

If you want an Xbox handheld in this year or next, your only options are Lenovo and Asus. No one else has anything ready to go at the volume Microsoft would need before putting their log on it.

Again, no idea why you're bringing up ASUS buying Lenovo. Also, the size of hardware manufactures does nothing to explain why a Microsoft strategy to take money from them for the "privilege of Xbox branding" will make Microsoft more money than selling a lot of software from moving more units in the long run. Instead, they're cheapening the brand.

Because when the option is a $800 handheld or a $500 Victus 15 with a -50 GPU, the latter is going to win most of those buys during the holidays. Segmentation fades away when the price difference gets that large.

I'm sorry, that's stupid. Someone doesn't go into Best Buy because they need to buy a laptop for some reason, and walk out with a Steam Deck because it was cheaper.

Steam has a much larger library, and Nintendo and PlayStation have better exclusives and player loyalty at this point (PS also does PC obviously). Game Pass doesn't come close to the player bases of any of those three.

Yes, Steam has a monopoly. Everyone knows this. It's why Epic gives a game away every week. You don't crack that monopoly by putting their storefront on your Xbox-branded device any more than you improve Xbox hardware sales by putting first-party Microsoft-made games on Playstation.

Handhelds are almost always secondary gaming devices, most owners have a PC or console first. No one is buying a Steam Deck instead of a console or gaming PC.

What is your source for this?

Someone isn't going to make their first Xbox Game Pass experience a handheld, they're much more likely going to come from Xbox or PC.

Sure they would. If you make a product that offers more value than any other on the market.

Also, if you want to talk about "secondary gaming devices", this is what programs like Play Anywhere and dual entitlement were all about. Every Xbox gamer out there could buy a handheld, would already own their current library, and any new game they bought could they own and could use on handheld, their console, or even a shitty laptop if they have one that can run it. They could jump from handheld to console to PC with progress sync'd. It suddenly justified all the groundwork they've spent the last decade laying down.

What do you think BOM of a gaming handheld is? That's what I meant earlier, lots of people in this thread have no idea what PCs cost to make these days.

Share with us the BOM of the ROG Ally Xbox.

And Valve has way better profitability and margins than Microsoft, doesn't need to share money with retailers, and it's private. That's why no one can take the bath Valve does on the Steam Deck.

Yet Microsoft has historically often sold consoles at a loss. Even with the XSX, the more powerful machine at the same $499 introductory price, they basically broke even. The concept is the same. Unlike competitors, they can afford to lose money or make less money on the hardware sale because their milkshake is the software.

 

[avenue94]

Again, no idea why you're bringing up ASUS buying Lenovo. Also, the size of hardware manufactures does nothing to explain why a Microsoft strategy to take money from them for the "privilege of Xbox branding" will make Microsoft more money than selling a lot of software from moving more units in the long run. Instead, they're cheapening the brand.

Because you are betting that people will buy games they wouldn't have had on their console or PC. Sure some will, but most games will have been bought regardless of the device (hence loss leading isn't prudent).

I'm sorry, that's stupid. Someone doesn't go into Best Buy because they need to buy a laptop for some reason, and walk out with a Steam Deck because it was cheaper.

But they go in thinking about mobile gaming, see the Lenovo and Asus endcaps that cost twice as much, and some will be lost to entry-level gaming notebooks.

Yes, Steam has a monopoly. Everyone knows this. It's why Epic gives a game away every week. You don't crack that monopoly by putting their storefront on your Xbox-branded device any more than you improve Xbox hardware sales by putting first-party Microsoft-made games on Playstation.

Microsoft isn't trying to crack Stream's monopoly. They're trying to pick up more software revenue when possible.

What is your source for this?

It's what has come up in buyer surveys and Microsoft's communications with partners. You don't have to believe me since it's the internet, so I'll just note that handhelds are ultra specialized tablets, and those are mostly second or third devices.

Sure they would. If you make a product that offers more value than any other on the market.

Also, if you want to talk about "secondary gaming devices", this is what programs like Play Anywhere and dual entitlement were all about. Every Xbox gamer out there could buy a handheld, would already own their current library, and any new game they bought could they own and could use on handheld, their console, or even a shitty laptop if they have one that can run it. They could jump from handheld to console to PC with progress sync'd. It suddenly justified all the groundwork they've spent the last decade laying down.

And there is zero chance Microsoft beats Valve on value, it's impossible.

That's my point. Console or PC purchase almost always comes before handheld, which to date has been an enthusiast buy. If decide I want to take my gaming on the go and have an Xbox, I might buy a few more for my handheld, but most of my spending would have happened either way.

Share with us the BOM of the ROG Ally Xbox.

Napkin math based on what I know components cost ODM's and what Dell has reported paying. All told, it's at least 600-700 bucks before getting into transportation, marketing (endcaps are brutally expensive), and other costs. Best Buy also requires a markup for its cut.
Display: ~100
SoC: ~100-150
Memory: ~150
Storage: At least ~50
Wifi Card: ~15, since AMD doesn't bundle as cheaply as Intel
Chassis: ???, but I'd guess at least $100-150
OS: ~70
Battery: ~40-50
Charger: ~30-50

Yet Microsoft has historically often sold consoles at a loss. Even with the XSX, the more powerful machine at the same $499 introductory price, they basically broke even. The concept is the same. Unlike competitors, they can afford to lose money or make less money on the hardware sale because their milkshake is the software.

They didn't for most of life cycle, and that was with massive economies of scale. I don't think you understand how much cheaper consoles are than handhelds since they don't have a screen, battery, etc.

 

[Madmick]

Because you are betting that people will buy games they wouldn't have had on their console or PC. Sure some will, but most games will have been bought regardless of the device (hence loss leading isn't prudent).

But they go in thinking about mobile gaming, see the Lenovo and Asus endcaps that cost twice as much, and some will be lost to entry-level gaming notebooks.

Microsoft isn't trying to crack Stream's monopoly. They're trying to pick up more software revenue when possible

And there is zero chance Microsoft beats Valve on value, it's impossible.

How do you sell more games when you move a tiny number of units that let the user easily install other marketplaces like Epic & Steam (with its unassailable monopoly)?

It's what has come up in buyer surveys and Microsoft's communications with partners. You don't have to believe me since it's the internet, so I'll just note that handhelds are ultra specialized tablets, and those are mostly second or third devices.

I surely don't.

That's my point. Console or PC purchase almost always comes before handheld, which to date has been an enthusiast buy. If decide I want to take my gaming on the go and have an Xbox, I might buy a few more for my handheld, but most of my spending would have happened either way.

No, it's not your point. It was my point highlighting a wedge using your example of a market of secondary users that would make an Xbox handheld device more attractive to Xbox users over other handhelds on the market that could run the more popular marketplace Steam (such as the Steam Deck).

Napkin math based on what I know components cost ODM's and what Dell has reported paying. All told, it's at least 700 bucks before getting into transportation, marketing (endcaps are brutally expensive), and other costs. Best Buy also requires a markup for its cut.
Display: ~100
SoC: ~100-150
Memory: ~150
Storage: At least ~50
Wifi Card: ~15, since AMD doesn't bundle as cheaply as Intel
Chassis: ???, but I'd guess at least 200
OS: ~70
Battery: ~40-50
Charger: ~30-50

They didn't for most of life cycle, and that was with massive economies of scale. I don't think you understand how much cheaper consoles are than handhelds since they don't have a screen, battery, etc.

I don't want "napkin math". I want substantiated BOMs. If you're gonna do it component by component, then show the BOM for each component in the ROG Ally Xbox. Substantiate each listed cost. You have no credit with me.

 

[avenue94]

How do you sell more games when you move a tiny number of units that let the user easily install other marketplaces like Epic & Steam (with its unassailable monopoly)?

You take your time and don't rush a strategic expansion that will take several years into one generation. You use this launch to get feedback, educate your potential shoppers, and improve your product.

I surely don't.

In your mind, what rough percent of ROG Ally buyers:
1. Don't already own an Xbox or gaming PC
2. Don't/didn't have Game Pass before buying their handheld.

How do you sell more games when you move a tiny number of units that let the user easily install other marketplaces like Epic & Steam (with its unassailable monopoly)?

I surely don't.

No, it's not your point. It was my point highlighting a wedge using your example of a market of secondary users that would make an Xbox handheld device more attractive to Xbox users over other handhelds on the market that could run the more popular marketplace Steam (such as the Steam Deck).

I don't want "napkin math". I want substantiated BOMs. If you're gonna do it component by component, then show the BOM for each component in the ROG Ally Xbox. Substantiate each listed cost. You have no credit with me.

There isn't one available, but you can get pretty close since we have BOM for the XPS 13 in recent years.

Hence I gave ranges and estimates. Is there particular component cost you think I'm vastly overestimating?

You keep claiming this handheld should have been subsidized even more, yet you can't explain how much it costs or even quantity the attach rate for Microsoft.

 

[Madmick]

You take your time and don't rush a strategic expansion that will take several years into one generation. You use this launch to get feedback, educate your potential shoppers, and improve your product.

This isn't an answer. It's gobbledygook that says nothing.

In your mind, what rough percent of ROG Ally buyers:
1. Don't already own an Xbox or gaming PC
2. Don't/didn't have Game Pass before buying their handheld.

Excuse me? You're the one who asserted a claim. The burden to prove this is on you, not me. What percent of handheld owners already own another gaming device, and are purchasing it as a secondary unit? Offer the forum a shred of evidence to confirm your claim.

There isn't one available, but you can get pretty close since we have BOM for the XPS 13 in recent years.

Hence I gave ranges and estimates. Is there particular component cost you think I'm vastly overestimating?

You keep claiming this handheld should have been subsidized even more, yet you can't explain how much it costs or even quantity the attach rate for Microsoft.

I've highlighted that you're inventing BOMs with sweeping speculation. When challenged on this, you only confirm my suspicion, because you can't substantiate the handhelds, or any of the individual components in the handhelds. Instead you point to a Dell XPS laptop with a 13" 3K touchscreen and an MSRP directly from the manufacturer nearly double the MSRP of the base ROG Ally Xbox.

The Lenovo Legion Go S is $549 on Best Buy right now. This is already $50 higher than the original MSRP announced due to tariffs. Are Lenovo and Best Buy "taking a bath" on that?

 

[avenue94]

This isn't an answer. It's gobbledygook that says nothing.

Excuse me? You're the one who asserted a claim. The burden to prove this is on you, not me. What percent of handheld owners already own another gaming device, and are purchasing it as a secondary unit? Offer the forum a shred of evidence to confirm your claim.

Uhhh, it's a clear explanation as to why Microsoft's goal isn't to beat Steam in a single handheld generation, which is what you argued they should do. I don't expect a concrete number, I'm more curious if you think the majority/minority of handheld buyers already have Game Pass or a console/gaming PC.

I've highlighted that you're inventing BOMs with sweeping speculation. When challenged on this, you only confirm my suspicion, because you can't substantiate the handhelds, or any of the individual components in the handhelds. Instead you point to a Dell XPS laptop with a 13" screen and an MSRP directly from the manufacturer nearly double the MSRP of the base ROG Ally Xbox.

Do you think RAM and SSDs magically cost different prices based on whether they go in a handheld or laptop? The difference in cost between an XPS 13 and handheld is mostly down to XPS having a larger, aluminum chassis.

Again, you're the one insisting that the rough estimates I gave you are wrong, despite not being able to clearly explain what you think any of those components cost.

The Lenovo Legion Go S is $549 on Best Buy right now. This is already $50 higher than the original MSRP announced due to tariffs. Are Lenovo and Best Buy "taking a bath" on that?

The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture. That's before you get into Lenovo having lower ODM costs because they are the best at that atm while Asus is the worst of the big 5 OEMs atm in that facet.
-Steam doesn't charge anywhere close to the price Microsoft charges for an OS.
-8GB less RAM
-512GB less storage
-Cheaper SSD
-Cheaper chassis

You also keep forgetting to factor in Best Buy's cut. The Go S is profitable, but margins are narrow and smaller than notebooks.

 

[Madmick]

Uhhh, it's a clear explanation as to why Microsoft's goal isn't to beat Steam in a single handheld generation, which is what you argued they should do. I don't expect a concrete number, I'm more curious if you think the majority/minority of handheld buyers already have Game Pass or a console/gaming PC.

Do you think RAM and SSDs magically cost different prices based on whether they go in a handheld or laptop? The difference in cost between an XPS 13 and handheld is mostly down to XPS having a larger, aluminum chassis.

And a 13.4" 3K touchscreen, a camera, a microphone, a more robust circuit board with USB4 support, more powerful quad speakers, a higher WiFi standard (7 vs. 6), and potentially whatever the difference is in cost between a keyboard & touchpad vs. dual analog joysticks. But sure, otherwise, exactly the same, LOL.

13.4" vs. 7" 16:9 display

Again, you're the one insisting that the rough estimates I gave you are wrong, despite not being able to clearly explain what you think any of those components cost.

The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture. That's before you get into Lenovo having lower ODM costs because they are the best at that atm while Asus is the worst of the big 5 OEMs atm in that facet.
-Steam doesn't charge anywhere close to the price Microsoft charges for an OS.
-8GB less RAM
-512GB less storage
-Cheaper SSD
-Cheaper chassis

You also keep forgetting to factor in Best Buy's cut. The Go S is profitable, but margins are narrow and smaller than notebooks.

How is the Legion Go S suddenly $150 to manufacture, LOL? The chart you just gave us with the BOM estimates quoted a 512GB SSD and 16GB LPDDR5 5200 RAM, Dory, did you already forget? That's exactly what is in the $549 MSRP'd Lenovo Legion Go S I just linked (except the Go S actually has superior 16GB LPDDR5X-6400 MHz RAM). The cost quoted for just those two components is over $150:

The SSD is cheaper? The Legion Go S has a PCIe Gen 4.0 SSD in it. The "Class 40" (Dell's stupid terminology) doesn't mean anything. That's because they source from a million different providers. The version Notebookcheck tested in their $1300 XPS 9345 unit was a WD SN740. Guess what that is? A PCIe 4.0x4 SSD, LOL.

You're whining about a "cheaper chassis" when the anodized aluminum CNC-cut chassis for the XPS laptop isn't comparable to the higher end handhelds here, at all, and isn't acceptable as an analogue for a cost estimate. BTW, there isn't any difference in the chassis between the ROG Xbox Ally X and Xbox Ally. The only listed difference is the impulse triggers.

And the chipset in the Lenovo Legion Go S is superior to the chipset in the cheaper Steam Deck for which you said Valve is "taking a bath".

Are you done blowing hot air out of your ass?

 

[avenue94]

And a 13.4" 3K touchscreen, a camera, a microphone, a more robust circuit board with USB4 support, more powerful quad speakers, a higher WiFi standard (7 vs. 6), and potentially whatever the difference is in cost between a keyboard & touchpad vs. dual analog joysticks. But sure, otherwise, exactly the same, LOL.

13.4" vs. 7" 16:9 display

Which is why I estimated the ROG Xbox Ally's display cost as ~$100 and ~200 for the chassis, compared to the XPS 13's display cost of (~$140) and chassis ($550 for carcass and keyboard, less $50 if you are not counting one-time start up tooling and design costs). If you want to assume that the Xbox Ally's display costs half of the XPS 13's (ignoring that the former is touch, higher refresh/lower response times), fine by me. Same if you want to assume AMD-compatible wireless cards cost the same as Intel's bundled offering (it doesn't, but whatever), sure let's call it 8 bucks. That now gives us:


Display: ~$60, we'll pretend that AMD has better economies of scale than Intel here.
SoC: ~$100
Memory: ~$100, we'll pretend LPDDR prices are down in 2025 even though they aren't.
Storage: At least ~50
Wifi Card: ~8, since AMD doesn't bundle as cheaply as Intel
Chassis: ???, but I'd guess at least 200
OS: ~70
Battery: ~40-50
Charger: ~30-50

That gives us a BOM of over $600, before factoring in warranty or logistical costs, so about $700 total if Asus gets all the lucky breaks. For your $899 cost at Best Buy, assuming they're nice and only want a 15% markup (25% is more common), that gives Asus a 9% margin before accounting for the millions of dollars Asus spends every year to have a national endcap at Best Buy.

TLDR: Unless Microsoft is getting an additional $100 of revenue per unit it wouldn't have gotten before, adding in $100 per unit rebate makes no sense for Microsoft when they already get 70 bucks per buy.

How is the Legion Go S suddenly $150 to manufacture, LOL? The chart you just gave us with the BOM estimates quoted a 512GB SSD and 16GB LPDDR5 5200 RAM, Dory, did you already forget? That's exactly what is in the $549 MSRP'd Lenovo Legion Go S I just linked (except the Go S actually has superior 16GB LPDDR5X-6400 MHz RAM). The cost quoted for just those two components is over $150:

Reading is your friend. I said that the Legion Go S is probably $150 (or more) cheaper than the ROG Xbox Ally, not that it costs $150 to product.

The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture. That's before you get into Lenovo having lower ODM costs because they are the best at that atm while Asus is the worst of the big 5 OEMs atm in that facet.

You're whining about a "cheaper chassis" when the anodized aluminum CNC-cut chassis for the XPS laptop isn't comparable to the higher end handhelds here, at all, and isn't acceptable as an analogue for a cost estimate. BTW, there isn't any difference in the chassis between the ROG Xbox Ally X and Xbox Ally. The only listed difference is the impulse triggers.

Where did I say the chassis of the Xbox Ally costs the same as the XPS 13? I very clearly provided a much lower cost estimate for it.

And how do the Xbox Ally X and Xbox Ally have the same chassis if one has a substantially larger battery and different I/O? They're very similar, but clearly different chassis and PCB.

And the chipset in the Lenovo Legion Go S is superior to the chipset in the cheaper Steam Deck for which you said Valve is "taking a bath".

I never claimed otherwise, I was commenting on the Legion G S to the Xbox Ally X.

Valve has been very clear that it loses money on the entry-level Steam Deck, and that's without having to pay $70 to Microsoft for a Windows license or account for the 15%-25% cut that Best Buy requires since Valve only sells direct to consumer.

Are you done blowing hot air out of your ass?

You have an odd way of trying to cover up your poor reading comprehension or outright mistakes.

For example, you think that handhelds generate new revenue, when in all likelihood people are playing games and subscriptions they already previously owned before purchasing that handheld.

 

[Madmick]

Which is why I estimated the ROG Xbox Ally's display cost as ~$100 and ~200 for the chassis, compared to the XPS 13's display cost of (~$140) and chassis ($550 for carcass and keyboard, less $50 if you are not counting one-time start up tooling and design costs). If you want to assume that the Xbox Ally's display costs half of the XPS 13's (ignoring that the former is touch, higher refresh/lower response times), fine by me. Same if you want to assume AMD-compatible wireless cards cost the same as Intel's bundled offering (it doesn't, but whatever), sure let's call it 8 bucks. That now gives us:


Display: ~$60, we'll pretend that AMD has better economies of scale than Intel here.
SoC: ~$100
Memory: ~$100, we'll pretend LPDDR prices are down in 2025 even though they aren't.
Storage: At least ~50
Wifi Card: ~8, since AMD doesn't bundle as cheaply as Intel
Chassis: ???, but I'd guess at least 200
OS: ~70
Battery: ~40-50
Charger: ~30-50

That gives us a BOM of over $600, before factoring in warranty or logistical costs, so about $700 total if Asus gets all the lucky breaks. For your $899 cost at Best Buy, assuming they're nice and only want a 15% markup (25% is more common), that gives Asus a 9% margin before accounting for the millions of dollars Asus spends every year to have a national endcap at Best Buy.

TLDR: Unless Microsoft is getting an additional $100 of revenue per unit it wouldn't have gotten before, adding in $100 per unit rebate makes no sense for Microsoft when they already get 70 bucks per buy.

Reading is your friend. I said that the Legion Go S is probably $150 (or more) cheaper than the ROG Xbox Ally, not that it costs $150 to product.


Where did I say the chassis of the Xbox Ally costs the same as the XPS 13? I very clearly provided a much lower cost estimate for it.

And how do the Xbox Ally X and Xbox Ally have the same chassis if one has a substantially larger battery and different I/O? They're very similar, but clearly different chassis and PCB.

I never claimed otherwise, I was commenting on the Legion G S to the Xbox Ally X.

Valve has been very clear that it loses money on the entry-level Steam Deck, and that's without having to pay $70 to Microsoft for a Windows license or account for the 15%-25% cut that Best Buy requires since Valve only sells direct to consumer.

You have an odd way of trying to cover up your poor reading comprehension or outright mistakes.

For example, you think that handhelds generate new revenue, when in all likelihood people are playing games and subscriptions they already previously owned before purchasing that handheld.

My poor reading comprehension, LOL. Bro, you just asserted the Lenovo Legion Go S would cost $150 to manufacture because you didn't even read your own damn jpeg showing the cost of SSD & RAM.

Have the good sense to know when you've been KTFO'd.

 

[Sycho Sid]

My poor reading comprehension, LOL. Bro, you just asserted the Lenovo Legion Go S would cost $150 to manufacture because you didn't even read your own damn jpeg showing the cost of SSD & RAM.

Have the good sense to know when you've been KTFO'd.

Man, i don't usually get involved, but you literally highlighted that he said 150 less to manufacture. Not that it would be 150 to manufacture


"The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture."

 

[avenue94]

My poor reading comprehension, LOL. Bro, you just asserted the Lenovo Legion Go S would cost $150 to manufacture because you didn't even read your own damn jpeg showing the cost of SSD & RAM.

Have the good sense to know when you've been KTFO'd.

Allow me to quote, again, what I said verbatim. Do you not understand basic English?

The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture. That's before you get into Lenovo having lower ODM costs because they are the best at that atm while Asus is the worst of the big 5 OEMs atm in that facet.

I wrote that the Legion G S is cheaper probably by about $150, not that it costs $150 to manufacturer.

You can just own up to misreading a rather clear sentence instead of feigning a lack of reading comprehension.

 

[avenue94]

Man, i don't usually get involved, but you literally highlighted that he said 150 less to manufacture. Not that it would be 150 to manufacture

I won't pretend to being a not jackass all the time on sherdog, but goddamn Mick cannot admit when he's over his skis, no matter how obvious.

People misread shit all the time, myself included, it's not the end of the world to say you goofed and move on.

 

[Madmick]

Man, i don't usually get involved, but you literally highlighted that he said 150 less to manufacture. Not that it would be 150 to manufacture

"The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture."

Allow me to quote, again, what I said verbatim. Do you not understand basic English?


I wrote that the Legion G S is cheaper probably by about $150, not that it costs $150 to manufacturer.

You can just own up to misreading a rather clear sentence instead of feigning a lack of reading comprehension.

My mistake, then. I concede that point.

 

[avenue94]

My mistake, then. I concede that point.

Thank you.

If you want to respond to what I estimated the BOM as, go for it. If not, more power to you, just want to make it clear that again I didn't just 1-1 copy XPS prices and cut the costs down quite a bit to account for the smaller form factor.

 

[Madmick]

Which is why I estimated the ROG Xbox Ally's display cost as ~$100 and ~200 for the chassis, compared to the XPS 13's display cost of (~$140) and chassis ($550 for carcass and keyboard, less $50 if you are not counting one-time start up tooling and design costs). If you want to assume that the Xbox Ally's display costs half of the XPS 13's (ignoring that the former is touch, higher refresh/lower response times), fine by me. Same if you want to assume AMD-compatible wireless cards cost the same as Intel's bundled offering (it doesn't, but whatever), sure let's call it 8 bucks. That now gives us:


Display: ~$60, we'll pretend that AMD has better economies of scale than Intel here.
SoC: ~$100
Memory: ~$100, we'll pretend LPDDR prices are down in 2025 even though they aren't.
Storage: At least ~50
Wifi Card: ~8, since AMD doesn't bundle as cheaply as Intel
Chassis: ???, but I'd guess at least 200
OS: ~70
Battery: ~40-50
Charger: ~30-50

That gives us a BOM of over $600, before factoring in warranty or logistical costs, so about $700 total if Asus gets all the lucky breaks. For your $899 cost at Best Buy, assuming they're nice and only want a 15% markup (25% is more common), that gives Asus a 9% margin before accounting for the millions of dollars Asus spends every year to have a national endcap at Best Buy.

Microsoft can waive the fee for the OS. They are partnering to put their own "Xbox" brand on it. I've already highlighted this. The goal would be to sell more units, and sell more software.

I certainly don't accept the chassis at $200, that's absurd, as there are tons of handhelds (not just PC gaming units) out there that manage products at low price points, like the Nintendo Switch units (from $159 to $319), or Logitech G Cloud ($299), for example. You've offered it up out of thin air.

Logitech G Cloud - Handheld Gaming Console

Shop Cloud Handheld Gaming. Features 7-inch Full HD touchscreen, precision remappable controls, 12+ hour battery, 463 grams, stereo audio, haptics, gyroscope, and more

www.logitechg.com

Yet even if we accepted this BOM, subtracting the OS reduces your speculated BOM to $388 before the chassis. And that's without subsidy.