Xbox Official Xbox thread

[avenue94]

Microsoft can waive the fee for the OS. They are partnering to put their own "Xbox" brand on it. I've already highlighted this. The goal would be to sell more units, and sell more software.

I certainly don't accept the chassis at $200, that's absurd, as there are tons of handhelds (not just PC gaming units) out there that manage products at low price points, like the Nintendo Switch units (from $159 to $319), or Logitech G Cloud ($299), for example. You've offered it up out of thin air.

Logitech G Cloud - Handheld Gaming Console

Shop Cloud Handheld Gaming. Features 7-inch Full HD touchscreen, precision remappable controls, 12+ hour battery, 463 grams, stereo audio, haptics, gyroscope, and more

www.logitechg.com

Yet even if we accepted this BOM, subtracting the OS reduces your speculated BOM to $388 before the chassis. And that's without subsidy.

They can, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were partially waiving the fee as a subsidy. But that increases the amount of software attach they need commensurately, and it's far from clear that handhelds bring in net new spending since most buyers already have a console or gaming PC.

I certainly don't accept the chassis at $200, that's absurd, as there are tons of handhelds (not just PC gaming units) out there that manage products at low price points, like the Nintendo Switch units (from $159 to $319), or Logitech G Cloud ($299), for example. You've offered it up out of thin air.

Logitech G Cloud - Handheld Gaming Console

Shop Cloud Handheld Gaming. Features 7-inch Full HD touchscreen, precision remappable controls, 12+ hour battery, 463 grams, stereo audio, haptics, gyroscope, and more

www.logitechg.com

The G Cloud launched at $349, sold poorly, and got price reductions combined with normal lifecycle cost improvements. On top of less expensive motors and a much simpler, fanless cooling system. Comparing EOL pricing and launch price is apples and oranges.

Ditto with the Switch Lite, launched at $199 with a much simpler design and much better economies of scale.

I'm basing the $200 estimate on a beefed up cooling system, larger chassis, upgraded motors, and fingerprint reader. Those aren't cheap, but if you want to say that $150 is a better estimate, sure. Still doesn't change the fact that Asus would be left with a sub-15% profit margin if Best Buy is nice and only takes 15%.

Yet even if we accepted this BOM, subtracting the OS reduces your speculated BOM to $388 before the chassis. And that's without subsidy.

Waiving an OS license fee (which Microsoft almost never does by the way, even SI's pay full price) is a subsidy. There's no point trying to portray it otherwise. They can certainly do that, but again, that increases the software revenue a shopper needs to contribute and requires some really wishful financial modeling.

Let's reverse the question: What percent margin should Asus and its retail partners, namely Best Buy, aim for? If we know that, we can work backward on costs.

 

[avenue94]

They can, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were partially waiving the fee as a subsidy. But that increases the amount of software attach they need commensurately, and it's far from clear that handhelds bring in net new spending since most buyers already have a console or gaming PC.

The G Cloud launched at $349, sold poorly, and got price reductions combined with normal lifecycle cost improvements. On top of less expensive motors and a much simpler, fanless cooling system. Comparing EOL pricing and launch price is apples and oranges.

Ditto with the Switch Lite, launched at $199 with a much simpler design and much better economies of scale.

I'm basing the $200 estimate on a beefed up cooling system, larger chassis, upgraded motors, and fingerprint reader. Those aren't cheap, but if you want to say that $150 is a better estimate, sure. Still doesn't change the fact that Asus would be left with a sub-15% profit margin if Best Buy is nice and only takes 15%.

Waiving an OS license fee (which Microsoft almost never does by the way, even SI's pay full price) is a subsidy. There's no point trying to portray it otherwise. They can certainly do that, but again, that increases the software revenue a shopper needs to contribute and requires some really wishful financial modeling.

Let's reverse the question: What percent margin should Asus and its retail partners, namely Best Buy, aim for? If we know that, we can work backward on costs.

Edit: You also need to leave room in MSRP for discounts, since most hardware purchases happen on sale.

 

[Madmick]

They can, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were partially waiving the fee as a subsidy. But that increases the amount of software attach they need commensurately, and it's far from clear that handhelds bring in net new spending since most buyers already have a console or gaming PC.

The G Cloud launched at $349, sold poorly, and got price reductions combined with normal lifecycle cost improvements. On top of less expensive motors and a much simpler, fanless cooling system. Comparing EOL pricing and launch price is apples and oranges.

Ditto with the Switch Lite, launched at $199 with a much simpler design and much better economies of scale.

Even at $349 the G Cloud would be drastically overpriced given your BOM assumptions per component unless you are wildly overestimating the chassis costs, so clearly you are.

I'm basing the $200 estimate on a beefed up cooling system, larger chassis, upgraded motors, and fingerprint reader. Those aren't cheap, but if you want to say that $150 is a better estimate, sure. Still doesn't change the fact that Asus would be left with a sub-15% profit margin if Best Buy is nice and only takes 15%.

You're basing it on nothing. You have no BOM of a handheld chassis to compare.

Waiving an OS license fee (which Microsoft almost never does by the way, even SI's pay full price) is a subsidy. There's no point trying to portray it otherwise. They can certainly do that, but again, that increases the software revenue a shopper needs to contribute and requires some really wishful financial modeling.

Let's reverse the question: What percent margin should Asus and its retail partners, namely Best Buy, aim for? If we know that, we can work backward on costs.

The bottom line is your BOM can't explain the Lenovo Legion Go S at $549. You said it had a "cheaper chassis" despite that it also has active cooling, and you have no substantive basis for your chassis estimates; a cheaper SSD because you failed to understand it is the same class and size SSD as in the Dell BOM bill; cheaper RAM because you again didn't notice it was the same quantity and class as an inferior 16GB shown in the jpeg as an $87 set in 2024, but go ahead and adjust $13 down for that; and finally a cheaper OS without providing an estimate for that. The touchscreen is actually larger and a higher resolution in the Legion Go S than in the ROG Xbox Ally.

You can consider Microsoft waiving the OS as a subsidy, that's fine, but it's a passive subsidy that costs Microsoft nothing other than the opportunity cost per unit of hardware sale. Below is your "napkin math". This would put the cost at $607-$627 without any OS cost at all. So if it is $150 cheaper, where does that cut come from? And now we're at $457, no OS, and you still have "transportation", "marketing", and yet only $92 to cover this.

Display: $100
SoC: $100
Memory: $100 ($87)
Storage: $50
Chassis: $200
OS: ?? (less than $70)
Battery: $40-50
Charger: $30-50

It's obvious your estimates are way off, and it's quite possible for them to price the handheld more cheaply, especially if they're willing to forego a higher profit margin in exchange for moving more units, and getting more software sales.

 

[avenue94]

The bottom line is your BOM can't explain the Lenovo Legion Go S at $549. You said it had a "cheaper chassis" despite that it also has active cooling, and you have no substantive basis for your chassis estimates; a cheaper SSD because you failed to understand it is the same class and size SSD as in the Dell BOM bill; cheaper RAM because you again didn't notice it was the same quantity and class as an inferior 16GB shown in the jpeg as an $87 set in 2024, but go ahead and adjust $13 down for that; and finally a cheaper OS without providing an estimate for that. The touchscreen is actually larger and a higher resolution in the Legion Go S than in the ROG Xbox Ally.

The Go S very plainly has a cheaper chassis since it skips haptic triggers, a fingerprint reader, and some other minor touches. All of those raise costs.

You seem very confused here: I compared the Go S costs to the ROG Xbox Ally X, hence my comment mentioned Asus' ODM relationships.
-Hence I said the Go S (512) is a cheaper SSD than the Xbox Ally X (1000)
-Dell paid $87 for LPDDR5 5200, but $100 for LPDDR5X 8433. But if you want to say that DDR5 pricing has come down significantly, sure.
-Why would I provide an estimate for how much Steam OS cost, if all I know is that it was substantially cheaper than Windows?

You can consider Microsoft waiving the OS as a subsidy, that's fine, but it's a passive subsidy that costs Microsoft nothing other than the opportunity cost per unit of hardware sale. Below is your "napkin math". This would put the cost at $607-$627 without any OS cost at all. So if it is $150 cheaper, where does that cut come from? And now we're at $457, no OS, and you still have "transportation", "marketing", and yet only $92 to cover this.

Waiving their OS fee literally costs Microsoft revenue per unit, you plainly don't understand what opportunity cost is based on how badly you're misusing the term. Microsoft isn't the one manufacturing and selling the product, that's Asus and it's ODM partners.

Display: $100
SoC: $100
Memory: $100 ($87)
Storage: $50
Chassis: $200
OS: ?? (less than $70)
Battery: $40-50
Charger: $30-50

Display: $100
SoC: $75-$100 is a more realistic range given its an older architecture and smaller chip
Memory: $87 (my estimate was probably a bit high for RAM prices)
Storage: $50
Chassis: $150 (as I noted it skips several features. If you think my chassis estimates are too high, I can see why and accept lower estimates)
OS: $50 since it's a round number, I suspect much lower based on how happy Lenovo's team was at CES
Battery: $25-30, it's smaller than the ROG Ally X
Charger: $30-50

That gives us a a cost of $567 for $649 MSRP. I agree that my chassis estimates for handhelds were probably too high.

It's obvious your estimates are way off, and it's quite possibly to price the handheld more cheaply, especially if they're willing to forego a higher profit margin in exchange for moving more units, and getting more software sales.

So again, what do you think the Rog Ally X costs to produce and how much additional revenue do you think Xbox would get per unit sold between games and Game Pass? What margin do you think is reasonable for a handheld?

 

[Madmick]

And how do the Xbox Ally X and Xbox Ally have the same chassis if one has a substantially larger battery and different I/O? They're very similar, but clearly different chassis and PCB.

Is this a serious question? For the same reason they do in the laptop world. Obviously you're someone who has never even opened up a laptop chassis to work with the internals. There is often unused space inside, especially because there are often so many different variants within the same model series that ship with the same chassis where the higher-end units will have components that take up more space. These aren't cell phones. How do you not know this? Only work with spreadsheets?

ROG Ally vs. ROG Ally X

ROG Xbox Ally (2025) | Gaming Handheld PCs｜ROG Global

ROG Xbox Ally (2025) brings handheld gaming freedom to everyone. Play your favorite games on a sleek, fun, and powerful portable gaming device.

rog.asus.com

ROG Xbox Ally X (2025) | Gaming Handheld PCs｜ROG Global

ROG Xbox Ally X (2025) delivers elite gaming with AMD Ryzen AI Z2 Extreme, 120Hz display, and Xbox integration for seamless AAA play anytime, anywhere.

rog.asus.com

You can even see this in the spec sheet. The dimensions are exactly the same.

The Go S very plainly has a cheaper chassis since it skips haptic triggers, a fingerprint reader, and some other minor touches. All of those raise costs.

You seem very confused here: I compared the Go S costs to the ROG Xbox Ally X, hence my comment mentioned Asus' ODM relationships.
-Hence I said the Go S (512) is a cheaper SSD than the Xbox Ally X (1000)
-Dell paid $87 for LPDDR5 5200, but $100 for LPDDR5X 8433. But if you want to say that DDR5 pricing has come down significantly, sure.
-Why would I provide an estimate for how much Steam OS cost, if all I know is that it was substantially cheaper than Windows?

No, you seem confused. I was focused on the fact the only substantiated BOM price you presented showed a 512GB "Class 40" (aka PCIe Gen 4) SSD, the same as in the Legion Go S, costing a real-world price of $74.40 in Mar-2024. Even the cheaper prices we saw there with the class cut off showed $53. So you can't reduce the storage price for the Go S. But this doesn't matter now because...

That gives us a a cost of $567 for $649 MSRP. I agree that my chassis estimates for handhelds were probably too high.

So again, what do you think the Rog Ally X costs to produce and how much additional revenue do you think Xbox would get per unit sold between games and Game Pass? What margin do you think is reasonable for a handheld?

...you belatedly realized that in your tunnel vision to assert the ROG Xbox Ally X at $999 couldn't possibly have been priced lower, you formed silly estimates that would have drastically overpriced the less expensive units.

Concession accepted.

 

[avenue94]

Is this a serious question? For the same reason they do in the laptop world. Obviously you're someone who has never even opened up a laptop chassis to work with the internals. There is often unused space inside, especially because there are often so many different variants within the same model series that ship with the same chassis where the higher-end units will have components that take up more space. These aren't cell phones. How do you not know this? Only work with spreadsheets?

ROG Ally vs. ROG Ally X

ROG Xbox Ally (2025) | Gaming Handheld PCs｜ROG Global

ROG Xbox Ally (2025) brings handheld gaming freedom to everyone. Play your favorite games on a sleek, fun, and powerful portable gaming device.

rog.asus.com

ROG Xbox Ally X (2025) | Gaming Handheld PCs｜ROG Global

ROG Xbox Ally X (2025) delivers elite gaming with AMD Ryzen AI Z2 Extreme, 120Hz display, and Xbox integration for seamless AAA play anytime, anywhere.

rog.asus.com

You can even see this in the spec sheet. The dimensions are exactly the same.

No, you seem confused. I was focused on the fact the only substantiated BOM price you presented showed a 512GB "Class 40" (aka PCIe Gen 4) SSD, the same as in the Legion Go S, costing a real-world price of $74.40 in Mar-2024. Even the cheaper prices we saw there with the class cut off showed $53. So you can't reduce the storage price for the Go S. But this doesn't matter now because...

...you belatedly realized that in your tunnel vision to assert the ROG Xbox Ally X at $999 couldn't possibly have been priced lower, you formed silly estimates that would have drastically overpriced the less expensive units.

Concession accepted.

When I say chassis, I'm including i/o and other components (triggers, etc), hence I don't have a separate line for what buttons and i/o cost. Ie they require different manufacturing, even if it's minor differences.

And again, when I sad the Go had cheaper storage that was compared to an ROG Xbox Ally X. That's why that paragraph literally refers to Asus, not Dell. Are you struggling with reading comprehension again?

And again you keep inviting that the 899 was a doable price point for a handheld that is currently priced at 999. Do you think that price reduction gets Microsoft an additional 100 in spend per unit compared to the current 999 price? If not, that subsidy makes zero sense.

 

[Madmick]

When I say chassis, I'm including i/o and other components (triggers, etc), hence I don't have a separate line for what buttons and i/o cost. Ie they require different manufacturing, even if it's minor differences.

Which I would accept if you didn't bring the size of the battery up. You're listing the battery cost separately, and you specifically invoked the size of the battery to justify the logic the chassis must be different. But the physical dimensions of the chassis are identical.

There's no wiggling out of this. Your ignorance of computer assembly is revealed.

 

[avenue94]

Which I would accept if you didn't bring the size of the battery up. You're listing the battery cost separately, and you specifically invoked the size of the battery to justify the logic the chassis must be different. But the physical dimensions of the chassis are identical.

There's no wiggling out of this. Your ignorance of computer assembly is revealed.

Because batteries are a substantial cost of their own. I never claimed the dimensions of the chassis differed, just that they are not identical between the base and X due to different batteries and other minor differences.

You keep ducking the simple question. Do you think Microsoft would get an addition 100 bucks in software spend per unit if the 999 variant was 899?

Edit: You'll also note that I didn't break out the cost of the mobo or other minor components, so if carcass or some other term makes you happier than chassis, knock yourself out.

 

[Madmick]

And how do the Xbox Ally X and Xbox Ally have the same chassis if one has a substantially larger battery

I never claimed the dimensions of the chassis differed, just that they are not identical between the base and X due to different batteries

 

[Strychnine]

ROG Xbox Ally X Buying Guide - Preorders Available At Best Buy (September 29)​

"Preorders for the ROG Xbox Ally X opened September 25 and promptly sold out at the Microsoft Store and Asus' online shop, but Best Buy is still taking orders for the $1,000 gaming handheld as of September 29. The retailer is offering release-day pickup or delivery for the ROG Xbox Ally X. The high-end Windows handheld launches alongside the more budget-friendly ROG Xbox Ally on October 16. The ROG Xbox Ally is available to preorder for $600 at Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, and Asus.

At this time, it doesn't appear like Amazon and Walmart will be carrying the Xbox Ally X at launch. Asus revealed the price points for both models when preorders opened, ending months of speculation and uncertainty. The first Xbox-branded handhelds were co-developed with Asus, the PC hardware manufacturer behind the most popular Windows portables so far. Check out the specifications of the ROG Xbox Ally X and ROG Xbox Ally below."

ROG Xbox Ally X Buying Guide - Preorders Available At Best Buy (September 29)

The Xbox-branded Asus ROG Ally releases October 16 with two different editions priced at $600/$1,000.

www.gamespot.com

 

[Sycho Sid]

Is Microsoft just giving up on being in the game market at this point? There are faster ways to go

 

[avenue94]

The Go S very plainly has a cheaper chassis since it skips haptic triggers, a fingerprint reader, and some other minor touches. All of those raise costs.

And here's me commenting earlier already that I'm lumping in triggers and parts of the overall package into "chassis," in this case referring to the Go S.

Once again, you keep resorting to bad faith hackiness instead of engaging with the actual points presented to you, because you would rather tell yourself you won a karate board discussion than admit you were blatantly wrong.

For example, you bizarrely trying to feign an inability to understand English until other posters called you out.

The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture.

How is the Legion Go S suddenly $150 to manufacture, LOL? The chart you just gave us with the BOM estimates quoted a 512GB SSD and 16GB LPDDR5 5200 RAM, Dory, did you already forget? T

My poor reading comprehension, LOL. Bro, you just asserted the Lenovo Legion Go S would cost $150 to manufacture because you didn't even read your own damn jpeg showing the cost of SSD & RAM.

Have the good sense to know when you've been KTFO'd.

My mistake, then. I concede that point.

Or here's you trying to claim I'm comparing a Lenovo handheld to a Dell laptop when I was explicitly clear that I was comparing it to an Asus handheld.

The Legion Go S is substantially cheaper, probably by about $150 to manufacture. That's before you get into Lenovo having lower ODM costs because they are the best at that atm while Asus is the worst of the big 5 OEMs atm in that facet.

...a cheaper SSD because you failed to understand it is the same class and size SSD as in the Dell BOM bill; cheaper RAM because you again didn't notice it was the same quantity and class as an inferior 16GB shown in the jpeg as an $87 set in 2024, but go ahead and adjust $13 down for that...

 

[avenue94]

Is Microsoft just giving up on being in the game market at this point? There are faster ways to go

Give it a couple years (hopefully not sooner) and you'll see some price increases that put Netflix and media streamers to shame. Got to compensate for cannibalizing legacy sales unfortunately.

 

[milliniar]

Give it a couple years (hopefully not sooner) and you'll see some price increases that put Netflix and media streamers to shame. Got to compensate for cannibalizing legacy sales unfortunately.

So the price increase was much sooner.

Updates to Xbox Game Pass: Introducing Essential, Premium, and Ultimate Plans - Xbox Wire

Introducing the new upgrades to Xbox Game Pass, including Essential, Premium and Ultimate. Details inside.

news.xbox.com

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

So the price increase was much sooner.

Updates to Xbox Game Pass: Introducing Essential, Premium, and Ultimate Plans - Xbox Wire

Introducing the new upgrades to Xbox Game Pass, including Essential, Premium and Ultimate. Details inside.

news.xbox.com

Those prices are wild. If I hadn’t already cancelled my Game Pass Ultimate subscription months ago I sure as fuck would be cancelling it now.

 

[HereticBD]

Is Microsoft just giving up on being in the game market at this point? There are faster ways to go

It's really not much different, if you can use the gift cards towards GPU. The cost was always relative to the points value. Still an odd decision though, since it just adds a small step to the process.

Gonna have to check today if they've also increased the trade in costs for cards, though. Think it was a little over 13,000 points for a $25 gift card. Wouldn't be surprised if that was increased to a nice round number like 20,000 points, now that they've increased the amount of points you can earn in a month.

 

[avenue94]

It's really not much different, if you can use the gift cards towards GPU. The cost was always relative to the points value. Still an odd decision though, since it just adds a small step to the process.

Gonna have to check today if they've also increased the trade in costs for cards, though. Think it was a little over 13,000 points for a $25 gift card. Wouldn't be surprised if that was increased to a nice round number like 20,000 points, now that they've increased the amount of points you can earn in a month.

It's a cost savings, since most spending on a GPU isn't revenue for Microsoft and most people don't even game on PC.

 

[HereticBD]

It's a cost savings, since most spending on a GPU isn't revenue for Microsoft and most people don't even game on PC.

Not sure I follow what you're saying. All they did was get rid of "Game Pass" specific gift cards. You can still use your points to buy generic gift cards and then just use them towards GPU. They haven't locked you out of using your points towards GPU.

 

[Sycho Sid]

It's a cost savings, since most spending on a GPU isn't revenue for Microsoft and most people don't even game on PC.

I'm not sure what this means. There are way more PC gamers than console, especially xbox

 

[avenue94]

Not sure I follow what you're saying. All they did was get rid of "Game Pass" specific gift cards. You can still use your points to buy generic gift cards and then just use them towards GPU. They haven't locked you out of using your points towards GPU.

I'm not sure what this means. There are way more PC gamers than console, especially xbox

Buying a GPU doesn't put money into Microsoft's pocket, unless it's for an entirely new build that needs a new Windows license.

Additionally, the number of PC gamers is quite small in the US compared to console, it's at best barely over a million a year between DIY and prebuilds.

TLDR: For Microsoft, it's better that you have to keep paying monthly subscriptions and you use the gift cards elsewhere, rather than redeeming points for Game Pass.