Official Women's Division Discussion #27

Eater of Souls said:
Harrison's ground grappling is not Ronda level. Takedowns sure as shit are. But Rousey spent far more time than many judoka working on ne-waza (ground techniques).
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Do you think Harrison's strength advantage would be enough to negate Dern's technical superiority? I realize Dern beat Garcia, but I have no idea what Garcia's skill level is like, just that she's physically a monster.
 
GBJohn said:
Do you think Harrison's strength advantage would be enough to negate Dern's technical superiority? I realize Dern beat Garcia, but I have no idea what Garcia's skill level is like, just that she's physically a monster.
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Hard to say. Garcia's advantage has always been size and strength and the fact that drug testing was a joke (I know she was sponsored by a compounding pharmacy in Brazil and if you do not know what they do you can figure it out in one sentence). Garcia's skill was not spectacular but for a truly technical breakdown of the discrepancies between her and Dern you would need someone with better working knowledge of BJJ than I. My grappling comes from Judo.

Harrison also has the advantage of being one hell of an athlete. I mean, fuck, she won two Olympic gold medals and a world championship and the judo talent pool for women is pretty big.
 
Eater of Souls said:
Hard to say. Garcia's advantage has always been size and strength and the fact that drug testing was a joke (I know she was sponsored by a compounding pharmacy in Brazil and if you do not know what they do you can figure it out in one sentence). Garcia's skill was not spectacular but for a truly technical breakdown of the discrepancies between her and Dern you would need someone with better working knowledge of BJJ than I. My grappling comes from Judo.

Harrison also has the advantage of being one hell of an athlete. I mean, fuck, she won two Olympic gold medals and a world championship and the judo talent pool for women is pretty big.
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Speaking of compounding pharmacies. Procopio’s tainted supplement mentioned here was from one.
 
Better Every Day said:
I think prime Rousey beats prime Dern in MMA, unless Rousey would let her ego interfere with her fight I.Q. I think Rousey had better stand up skills (as exemplified by her beating Bethe Correia and Sara McMann with pure striking, which I doubt Dern could do). I also think that Dern has rather poor takedown skills, so I don't think she could take Rousey down against her will. So I think prime Rousey wins with her stand-up skills.

As to who has better ground skills, I don't know. Too bad we won't get a chance to find out.
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Call Chael... Submission underground 22 needs a main event.
 
I figured out a way to spare fight fans Randa Markos fights which would be mention her as a
do not sign to Ed Soares at LFA & Shannon Knapp at Invicta since both promotions have
reasonably high standards as far as fighter quality goes which Randa Markos is below.
 
Chatted with my grappling instructor friend on the Mayra and Dern fights, roughly paraphrased, Randa and Mara screwed up 5 moves ago when they tried to sit up out of a triangle/armbar setup instead of staying tight, keeping the opponent's hips down, and working to "swim through" the way Ribas did against Dern. Trying to sit up and posture out of that position doesn't work unless the other person's a newbie or it's later in the fight and you're both covered in sweat. First minute of the fight against legit grapplers? Yeah you saw what happens then.

He also noted that as good as Dern is, going to the ground with her is not an instant submission. If you stay composed, don't make stupid mistakes, and make her work for her positions instead of giving them away, you can keep her from doing too much until the clock runs out or she tries to force something and gives up an opening for an escape. Which makes sense since both Yoder and Ribas survived on the ground just fine against her. Unfortunately, composure in the women's game is rather lacking. On one hand it makes for a lot of fun scrambles and sequences, on the other hand, it gets you tapped out fast against grapplers who know what they're doing.
 
aerius said:
With where Dern is at right now, give her 6 months with a high school wrestling coach and you'll see significant improvements in her takedowns. She's literally such a newbie that she doesn't even know the 1st day fundamentals like how to grip your hands or the proper starting stance for shooting a takedown.
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Yeah, I was thinking the same. Thanks for confirming.
 
Rizz said:
I am going to be honest. I have no clue. Everyone learns at different rates. Who would think Joanna who had been a striker her whole life would instantly have the greatest takedown defense / sub defense in the history of WMMA. For years people thought her weakness would be a wrestler or grappler and it turned out faster strikers were her real weakness.
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Great point Rizz. Similarly, prior to her first fight versus Joanna, who would have thought Rose was a very good stiker. Also we don't see how much time they are putting into specific training.
 
Askafan said:
I used to entertain all the usual boxing prejudices against cagefighting - tattooed oafs rolling about in a cage - so I'm the last person to pass an opinion. I've always thought that if Dern took the sport seriously then the sky was the limit for her. Would just like to see them scrap further down the line.

For guys like me who don't really know what they're watching this was interesting stuff. I did notice how Mackenzie lifted her foot into position, also they make the point that Randa's resistance was impressive.

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Never knew you were into boxing. I've enjoyed it in the past a lot and then once I started watching mma boxing seems really weird to me now. Boxing's called the sweet science and now I think mma is the the sweeter science.
 
MajorTB said:

Speaking of compounding pharmacies. Procopio’s tainted supplement mentioned here was from one.
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Damn. Normally their quality control is first rate. Someone fucked up.

My wife consulted for a couple before she moved up here full time. Including the one that sponsored Gabi Garcia. Take at look at Garcia's hands. She did so much HGH that it affected them. Monster hands. Her hands are bigger than mine and I can span ten keys on a piano.

Edit: just read it was ostarine, which sucks as a PED. Sort of like someone failing for methyltestosterone. Even back in the days of the wild, wild west nobody took that shit because it did very little, sides were bad and better options were available.
 
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msm1981 said:
I figured out a way to spare fight fans Randa Markos fights which would be mention her as a
do not sign to Ed Soares at LFA & Shannon Knapp at Invicta since both promotions have
reasonably high standards as far as fighter quality goes which Randa Markos is below.
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No she’s not. Not even close to being below LFA and Invicta standards.
 
leto1776 said:
No she’s not. Not even close to being below LFA and Invicta standards.
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People sleeping on Randa. Don't forget she managed to not lose twice in a row in the hardest female division until now. Call me crazy but I value that more than what Julia Bud has done at 145 but I take into account level of competition.
 
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Rizz said:
Trained by the same person but they use different styles.
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I agree.

I have been trained by the same guy as several other people. This goes for both striking and grappling. As we are different people we have not only different styles but different ways of applying the same things. I have exceptional reach (78" reach at 70" tall) and I love keeping people on the outside. My best friend was basically an elf after a cycle of d-bol. We fought differently. Shocking, right?

One of the reasons Harrison won two Olympic golds is not only did she spend longer competing in Judo at the open world level she was faster with her throws and more explosive. She did not spend as much time working on the ground as Ronda.

Also, they both started out training under different people entirely. Your formative years shape the rest of your career.
 
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