Official Women's Division Discussion #27

[GBJohn]

I was grilling while watching so I might have missed something, but I almost thought Alpar had tapped late in the second. Big foul up by Tognoni, but Clark definitely looked as good as I have ever seen her.

 

[Eater of Souls]

I was grilling while watching so I might have missed something, but I almost thought Alpar had tapped late in the second. Big foul up by Tognoni, but Clark definitely looked as good as I have ever seen her.

Yeah. She is apparently still training at CSA. I like them to a point. Kieran seems to have a one-size-fits-all mentality to training which works fine for beginners but as you develop as an athlete/fighter things need to be far more individualized.

 

[Rizz]

She got really violent in that 3rd round. Impressive!

 

[aerius]

Well, I guess we're about to find out what's stronger - the Markos win-loss pattern or the white shirt curse.

Edit: ok, she's not fighting in a white top, she was just wearing it during her warmup backstage

 

[Eater of Souls]

I never thought I would say this but Dern's striking is even worse than Ronda's was.

 

[aerius]

Confirmed: White shirt curse is for real, just wearing a white shirt on camera is enough to cause a loss and break the Markos pattern.
Alpar was also victimized by the white shirt curse, she got knocked loopy with a barely legal knee, then beaten senseless after the restart until the fight was finally stopped.

I never thought I would say this but Dern's striking is even worse than Ronda's was.

It was looking a lot like Holly vs. Ronda, with Markos playing the matador role. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[leto1776]

Markos is straight up retarded fighting like that.

 

[Xuh]

Randa's brain is the #1 reason she never progressed beyond 'gatekeeper' status.

Oh and I'm glad to be wrong about tonight's womyn's bouts sucking, they were all memorable albeit mostly entirely due to questionable decisions from two fighters and a referee

 

[fifthletter]

i like Mackenzie. Really good performance. I just look at the names ahead of her in rankings and I'm not sure she can get a win in the top 15. no disrespect. She did look in tremendous shape and i also think shes just a very good athlete/competitor. She likes the stage and has a lot of confidence in herself.

 

[Rizz]

Its a shame Dern does not have great takedowns because once the fight gets to the ground she is amazing. A specialist when they are using their specialty in MMA should be dominant like Dern. This is why I am so disappointed in Female boxers. How are you going to be struggling striking vs a can and call yourself a boxer?

 

[GBJohn]

I would think, given proper training, Dern should be able to develop good takedowns and striking. She’s obviously an excellent athlete, so she ought to be able to pick things up relatively quickly. It just remains to be seen if her newfound dedication will stick. Perhaps the loss to Ribas convinced her she can’t get by on her jiu jitsu alone.

 

[Rizz]

Good Interview with Dern where she answers why she is much more professional now.

 

[Rizz]

I always love it when the ladies get a bonus.

 

[aerius]

Its a shame Dern does not have great takedowns because once the fight gets to the ground she is amazing. A specialist when they are using their specialty in MMA should be dominant like Dern. This is why I am so disappointed in Female boxers. How are you going to be struggling striking vs a can and call yourself a boxer?

I think the difference is we actually have legit top level BJJ black belts crossing over into MMA whereas the same can't be said for boxers. The only good boxer I know of who's fought in MMA is Amanda Serrano, and even though she handily out-punched her opponents she was still having trouble dealing with kicks and the ground game.

Also, the women's game in MMA tends to favour crossover grapplers a lot more than boxers. Grapplers have an easier time since wrestling & takedown defence isn't nearly as developed as on the men's side, and with women usually throwing more kicks than punches it gives boxers problems. A boxer needs to get past the kicks, get into punching range, and avoid the clinch and takedowns, that's a lot of things going against them.

 

[Rizz]

This gave me a good laugh.

 

[jemstar]

She is something else...

 

[GBJohn]

I think the difference is we actually have legit top level BJJ black belts crossing over into MMA whereas the same can't be said for boxers. The only good boxer I know of who's fought in MMA is Amanda Serrano, and even though she handily out-punched her opponents she was still having trouble dealing with kicks and the ground game.

Also, the women's game in MMA tends to favour crossover grapplers a lot more than boxers. Grapplers have an easier time since wrestling & takedown defence isn't nearly as developed as on the men's side, and with women usually throwing more kicks than punches it gives boxers problems. A boxer needs to get past the kicks, get into punching range, and avoid the clinch and takedowns, that's a lot of things going against them.

Just a thought: male boxers crossing over are likely to bring knockout power, both to end fights, and as a deterrent. That kind of power is rare among women, so grapplers can walk through shots to get the fight into their realm. So many of Rousey’s opponents reacted to her bull rush by biting down on their mouthpiece and trying to knock her out coming in (ironically, a boxer ended her reign, so I guess that’s not the best example). I wonder if a female boxing equivalent of Nunes might find more success? I don’t follow boxing, so I don’t know if such a creature exists.

 

[JarlSkuld]

All three WMMA bouts delivered. Very enjoyable scraps and finishes. Yeah, I know Markos has fans here, but that...just...wasn't smart. I'm sure her coaches said, "Randa, whatever you do, don't jump into her guard." "Oooohhh, she missed a kick and fell. Now's my chance! I'll dive on her!". I wonder where she goes from now.

Jarl

 

[Better Every Day]

Big foul up by Tognoni, but Clark definitely looked as good as I have ever seen her.

If you are thinking that Tognoni wasn't following the rules correctly, it actually turned out that he was, according to the Nevada State Athletic Commission statement:

“It was a legal strike. They paused the fight because they thought it was a knee to a grounded opponent. They went to the replay and confirmed that it was a legal strike. The fight was never officially stopped. Sarah Alpar was asked if she could continue and if she wanted to continue, and she said yes. Under NSAC rules, the bout can continue after replay since the fight was only temporarily paused and never officially stopped.”

https://cagesidepress.com/2020/09/19/ufc-vegas-11-results-jessica-rose-clark-vs-sarah-alpar/

 

[Eater of Souls]

Just a thought: male boxers crossing over are likely to bring knockout power, both to end fights, and as a deterrent. That kind of power is rare among women, so grapplers can walk through shots to get the fight into their realm. So many of Rousey’s opponents reacted to her bull rush by biting down on their mouthpiece and trying to knock her out coming in (ironically, a boxer ended her reign, so I guess that’s not the best example). I wonder if a female boxing equivalent of Nunes might find more success? I don’t follow boxing, so I don’t know if such a creature exists.

Ann Wolfe but she is both too large and long retired. Honestly Amanda Nunes hits as hard as any woman I have ever seen.

There is a neural quality (RFD or rate of force development) critical to producing power and it is both lower and starts to decrease earlier in women. If anyone wants more information on it, well, it was central to both my master's thesis and doctoral dissertation so I can expand on it quite a bit.