Official Women's Division Discussion #26

[Eater of Souls]

Though when it comes to featherweight and the women's division thread, we should remember that...

Well, she did basically knock out half the division in one round.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Exactly
Cyborg vs Budd

Make It happen Dana/Coker!

Heee heeee... Cyborg vs. Budd, the battle of She-Hulkesque fighters who got ktfo in under a minute by Amanda Nunes. It would probably sell!

Jarl

 

[leto1776]

Tiani Valle defeated Andy Nguyen in Hawaii this past weekend. Valle missed weight, however, for a 118lb fight.


Andy being funny:

 

[Daniel4802]

Poor Andy Nguyen. She'll likely get a title shot next somewhere, regardless.

 

[Rizz]

Poor Andy Nguyen. She'll likely get a title shot next somewhere, regardless.

This is so true her an Bi seem like nice people so i'm cool with it but they lose so much and always seem to get in a better position anyway. Bi got a KOTC title shot with a 1 fight win streak over Cassie Robb. She lost that title shot an then gets signed by One. Andy is now 1 - 4 in her last 5 fights with her win coming against Cassie Robb. We know who they will call when they need another win to justify another title shot.

 

[Daniel4802]

This is so true her an Bi seem like nice people so i'm cool with it but they lose so much and always seem to get in a better position anyway. Bi got a KOTC title shot with a 1 fight win streak over Cassie Robb. She lost that title shot an then gets signed by One. Andy is now 1 - 4 in her last 5 fights with her win coming against Cassie Robb. We know who they will call when they need another win to justify another title shot.

Yeah Cassie is used pretty much like Katie Castro.

 

[teddy078]

"We all know this division doesn't exist" - BOOOOOOOOOMMMM!

With all the talk of TJ being hired to assassinate a division, people overlooked that Nunes had already been there/done that. Amanda "The Lion Pit Assassin Bull" Nunes

Jarl

Before Cyborg vs Nunes, almost all WFW fighters chose to side with Cyborg. They thought Cyborg was going to win and giving Cyborg support would be their tickets to UFC's titleshot.

I think Nunes is pissed about the lack the respect from WFW fighters, so she started to shittalk the whole division as her revenge.

Regardless her shittalk, I think Nunes is going to negotiate a new contract and defend her 145 belt. Giving up 145 belt now just doesn't make sense, Nunes vs Cyborg 2 would be a ppv seller and she has few interesting matchups left.

 

[AimedWithV]

Nunes vs Cyborg 2 would be a ppv seller

Why would it be one?
Cyborg herself doesn't do 300K views on her own. Nunes is an opposite of a PPV seller herself - no one wants to pay to see her.

 

[teddy078]

Why would it be one?
Cyborg herself doesn't do 300K views on her own. Nunes is an opposite of a PPV seller herself - no one wants to pay to see her.

250k ppv on Cyborg herself is a good number, most male champs won't get higher than that.

Cyborg vs Nunes happened on a huge ppv card, and the result trended sky high on social media. I think Cyborg vs Nunes 2 would do 400k ppv on its own, around 600k if supported by another good title matchup.

 

[Rizz]

250k ppv on Cyborg herself is a good number, most male champs won't get higher than that.

Cyborg vs Nunes happened on a huge ppv card, and the result trended sky high on social media. I think Cyborg vs Nunes 2 would do 400k ppv on its own, around 600k if supported by another good title matchup.

I agree. UFC 219 Headlined by Cyborg vs Holm did 340k to 380k I think a Nunes rematch can beat that given how viral the 1st fight was.

 

[AimedWithV]

250k ppv on Cyborg herself is a good number, most male champs won't get higher than that.

Cyborg vs Nunes happened on a huge ppv card, and the result trended sky high on social media. I think Cyborg vs Nunes 2 would do 400k ppv on its own, around 600k if supported by another good title matchup.

That doesn't work like that at all. Had it work like that, Nunes would've been already skyrocketed by being a main event in one of the best PPV ever - where she knocked out Rousey. And UFC 200.
And then she hit a lowest of the lows in Pennington.
If these MEGA HUGE PPVs did not elevate her - nothing will, including Jon Jones.
Same with Cyborg.

Cyborg Nunes 2 has no reason to hit 400K, and DEFINITELY not 600K on its own, even with "good title matchup" , whatever you mean by that (good how?)
It will probably do 150-200K.
And UFC know that very well. In any case, they're not going to pay anyone much more until they PROVE to be profitable.

I agree. UFC 219 Headlined by Cyborg vs Holm did 340k to 380k I think a Nunes rematch can beat that given how viral the 1st fight was.

Holm was a star there - and Anderson Silva was there as well. Both of them are more popular than Cyborg.

 

[Rizz]

Holm was a star there - and Anderson Silva was there as well. Both of them are more popular than Cyborg.

Is that so? Well lets go back to UFC 208. Anderson Silva and Holly Holm were on that card and if what you said was correct then that number should be within the same range as UFC 219 right? UFC 208 did 200k buys. Look I am definitely not a fan of Cyborg for a lot of reasons but she is a decent draw compared to anyone not named Jon Jones, DC or GSP. If you give her a good fight with good promotion and you can get mid 300k to around 400k. I never thought I would see the day where I would end up defending Cyborg.

 

[AimedWithV]

Look I am definitely not a fan of Cyborg for a lot of reasons but she is a decent draw compared to anyone not named Jon Jones, DC or GSP. If you give her a good fight with good promotion and you can get mid 300k to around 400k.

I simply don't see that. Holm vs Cyborg was basically one exception. Other than that, she never drew on her own. EVER.
Holm always brought a great amount of watchers on her free TV shows, and did it in boxing as well. She is not one of the PPV stars, but she's more famous than 90% of the MMA roster.
As of UFC 208, I kinda think the matchups is what killed it. They were not interesting to pretty much anyone. So both fighters lost their crowds in a way.

But even if you're correct and she can draw more than vs Kunitskaya given a right matchup, then one matchup DEFINITELY wrong would be Nunes.
Nunes is a fighter nobody wants to pay to watch. No matter what you do with her.
And if you think that it can be done under the right marketing , I'll agree with you - but UFC NEVER do the right marketing. They use PR machine only on their superstars.

 

[msm1981]

I simply don't see that. Holm vs Cyborg was basically one exception. Other than that, she never drew on her own. EVER.
Holm always brought a great amount of watchers on her free TV shows, and did it in boxing as well. She is not one of the PPV stars, but she's more famous than 90% of the MMA roster.
As of UFC 208, I kinda think the matchups is what killed it. They were not interesting to pretty much anyone. So both fighters lost their crowds in a way.

But even if you're correct and she can draw more than vs Kunitskaya given a right matchup, then one matchup DEFINITELY wrong would be Nunes.
Nunes is a fighter nobody wants to pay to watch. No matter what you do with her.
And if you think that it can be done under the right marketing , I'll agree with you - but UFC NEVER do the right marketing. They use PR machine only on their superstars.

Amanda Nunes is not a big draw which was evident with 85,000 PPV buys and a arena
that quickly emptied out prior to her main event fight with Raquel Pennington last May.

 

[AimedWithV]

Amanda Nunes is not a big draw which was evident with 85,000 PPV buys and a arena
that quickly emptied out prior to her main event fight with Raquel Pennington last May.

Exactly my point.
And more than 1M viewers watched her knocking out Ronda.

Nunes is helpless and hopeless in terms of an ability to attract the crowd.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Yeah, I'm still not seeing why Nunes should defend her belt against Cyborg. I guess I'm old school, but I think that a champ/challenger who gets ktfo in the first minute has proven they are not worthy of a rematch. They have to go back to start, get another win streak, beat a few high-ranked fighters, and then earn the rematch. If it had been a close SD, then I think Cyborg might have a claim. But, the fight wasn't close; Cyborg got slept and she face-planted. I'm a huge Robbie Lawler fan, but when he got KOed by Woodley, I didn't feel like he deserved a rematch for the title. Cyborg-Nunes is exactly the same....possibly worse because Cyborg got annihilated by a smaller fighter.

Even if you are Cyborg fan, why would you want an immediate rematch? Cyborg got destroyed, easily. If they fight again in June, the same thing is likely to happen again. Then where will Cyborg be? Here's where she'll be: two straight losses, brutally face-planting, aura of invincibility gone, claims to GOAT gone, criticisms of her only beating undersized cans validated, legacy gone, interest in watching her fight gone. She'll probably retire or take a huge pay-cut fighting in Invicta or Bellator.

Cyborg herself and Cyborg fans should be lobbying for a fight with Anderson and thinking about getting back on the winning track.

Nunes should be preparing for the winner of Holm-Ladd.

Jarl

 

[Eater of Souls]

Yeah, I'm still not seeing why Nunes should defend her belt against Cyborg. I guess I'm old school, but I think that a champ/challenger who gets ktfo in the first minute has proven they are not worthy of a rematch. They have to go back to start, get another win streak, beat a few high-ranked fighters, and then earn the rematch. If it had been a close SD, then I think Cyborg might have a claim. But, the fight wasn't close; Cyborg got slept and she face-planted. I'm a huge Robbie Lawler fan, but when he got KOed by Woodley, I didn't feel like he deserved a rematch for the title. Cyborg-Nunes is exactly the same....possibly worse because Cyborg got annihilated by a smaller fighter.

Even if you are Cyborg fan, why would you want an immediate rematch? Cyborg got destroyed, easily. If they fight again in June, the same thing is likely to happen again. Then where will Cyborg be? Here's where she'll be: two straight losses, brutally face-planting, aura of invincibility gone, claims to GOAT gone, criticisms of her only beating undersized cans validated, legacy gone, interest in watching her fight gone. She'll probably retire or take a huge pay-cut fighting in Invicta or Bellator.

Cyborg herself and Cyborg fans should be lobbying for a fight with Anderson and thinking about getting back on the winning track.

Nunes should be preparing for the winner of Holm-Ladd.

Jarl

Agree on all points. And after a career of fighting smaller women, I am pleased that Cyborg went face-down ass-up at the hands of one.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

I simply don't see that. Holm vs Cyborg was basically one exception. Other than that, she never drew on her own. EVER.
Holm always brought a great amount of watchers on her free TV shows, and did it in boxing as well. She is not one of the PPV stars, but she's more famous than 90% of the MMA roster.
As of UFC 208, I kinda think the matchups is what killed it. They were not interesting to pretty much anyone. So both fighters lost their crowds in a way.

But even if you're correct and she can draw more than vs Kunitskaya given a right matchup, then one matchup DEFINITELY wrong would be Nunes.
Nunes is a fighter nobody wants to pay to watch. No matter what you do with her.
And if you think that it can be done under the right marketing , I'll agree with you - but UFC NEVER do the right marketing. They use PR machine only on their superstars.

You're definitely wrong here Cyborg vs yana drew more buys then the card with Holm vs Anderson, even though it had 2 title fights, and cm punk drawing power as well. Holm was clearly not the bigger draw there. As for Anderson Silva 234 is coming up and I doubt it sells more then Cyborg v yana again so that will prove it wasn't him either.

Exactly my point.
And more than 1M viewers watched her knocking out Ronda.

Nunes is helpless and hopeless in terms of an ability to attract the crowd.

You realize that things can change right? This notion that things happened one way one time therefore no one will ever support amanda isnt real life, and it's hard to account for public interest. Saying Cyborg vs amanda 2 will draw less than Cyborg vs yana is beyond silly, with a strong undercard it definitely will be around 400k.

 

[leto1776]

I don’t see the rematch selling well. Whatever “mystic aura” Cyborg May have had is gone. Destroyed in 51 seconds. It’s not as if she were a grappler who never got it to the ground, where people can say “she never got to use her game.” She got beat at her own game.

People who say she didn’t fight like herself haven’t watched many of Cyborg’s fights.

 

[PurpleStorm]

Yeah, I'm still not seeing why Nunes should defend her belt against Cyborg. I guess I'm old school, but I think that a champ/challenger who gets ktfo in the first minute has proven they are not worthy of a rematch. They have to go back to start, get another win streak, beat a few high-ranked fighters, and then earn the rematch. If it had been a close SD, then I think Cyborg might have a claim. But, the fight wasn't close; Cyborg got slept and she face-planted. I'm a huge Robbie Lawler fan, but when he got KOed by Woodley, I didn't feel like he deserved a rematch for the title. Cyborg-Nunes is exactly the same....possibly worse because Cyborg got annihilated by a smaller fighter.

Even if you are Cyborg fan, why would you want an immediate rematch? Cyborg got destroyed, easily. If they fight again in June, the same thing is likely to happen again. Then where will Cyborg be? Here's where she'll be: two straight losses, brutally face-planting, aura of invincibility gone, claims to GOAT gone, criticisms of her only beating undersized cans validated, legacy gone, interest in watching her fight gone. She'll probably retire or take a huge pay-cut fighting in Invicta or Bellator.

Cyborg herself and Cyborg fans should be lobbying for a fight with Anderson and thinking about getting back on the winning track.

Nunes should be preparing for the winner of Holm-Ladd.

Jarl

Yeah good points. I'm more interested in seeing them fight other opponents in their next fights.