Official Women's Division Discussion #25

[Dsfdandan]

@Eater of Souls The fight night weights came in.

Cyborg weighed 160.5

Amanda Nunes weighed 156

Megan Anderson weighed 157

Cat Zingano weighed 156

How the hell did Cat ever make 125?

 

[Rizz]

With the recent events of Cyborg losing some people were asking if now is the time the UFC will be cutting the 145 division. In another forum Kaitlin Young shared her thoughts on the subject. I thought she had an interesting take on it that might spark conversation over here also. I won't direct link to it because I don't know this forums rules about linking to another one.

Direct Quote:
"I really hope not. The featherweight division is where the money stops for women, and even that is pretty recent. PFL has 155, but that is simply to build Kayla. Rizin has some fights for whoever wants to fight Gabi. These aren't divisions. The financial cliff is stark. Women fighting in a UFC weight class can potentially make hundreds of thousands to millions a year. Other organizations have even had to step up their pay to compete for athletes. If you are fighting over 145, you might make a couple grand per fight with no path to ever make more. There is no heavyweight or open weight division for women.

With 145 being relatively new it will take some time to fill out but it will happen. There will be more knockouts in this division. More real athletes will be attracted to it because it is now a viable career option rather than an expensive hobby as it was before the bigger organizations picked it up. Hopefully, the UFC will be patient and play the long game."

 

[Eater of Souls]

It is new to the UFC, not a new class. And while I understand the need for money, it has had shit for talent for more than a decade. The drop off of talent is not just sharp, it is virtual plummet into a void.

 

[msm1981]

My take on the current situation with Women's MMA in a long story short
is Bantamweight & Featherweight has reached the point of being stagnant
do to no new talent in the pipeline but 105-125 is doing well because those
weight classes have enough talent internationally & domestically to fill them
for the next several years.

 

[Eater of Souls]

My take on the current situation with Women's MMA in a long story short
is Bantamweight & Featherweight has reached the point of being stagnant
do to no new talent in the pipeline but 105-125 is doing well because those
weight classes have enough talent internationally & domestically to fill them
for the next several years.

I disagree about 135, as there are quite a few up-and-coming talents plus we need to get Kaufman back over to the UFC. With the TUF season over most of the 145ers should drop to 135.

145 has always lacked talent.

 

[Felis]

To make you all smile and your day a little brighter when browsing this fine thread this year I've decided to rock the thread's favorite fighter as an av this year.

I'm only not sure whether to go with Carla av A (featured to the left) or Carla av B (previewed below). Perhaps you can help.

She looks nice in the ava pic.
In the pic in the post she has a bit of a smug-bitch face going on imo.

If I were to take Carla for my avatar I'd probably choose a fight pic. A pic with the hair braided back where she looks like a little gnome. Not one where she gets kicked in the head or otherwise pummeled tho. Because as a fighter I actually really like Carla. I like her seriousness and determination and think her achievements/abilities are a bit underappreciated.
Carla the party girl, the girls-club girl, on the other hand I find highly annoying.

 

[MajorTB]

My take on the current situation with Women's MMA in a long story short
is Bantamweight & Featherweight has reached the point of being stagnant
do to no new talent in the pipeline but 105-125 is doing well because those
weight classes have enough talent internationally & domestically to fill them
for the next several years.

135 definitely lacked pro talent based in the US, but it had a healthy amateur scene, from which a ton of fighters are beginning to emerge, and I think you’ll see the division pick up a lot of steam. Internationally, I always find there’s a lot of bantamweight talent as well. Ideally the UFC should sign around 10 new 135ers this year. Which in turn allows Invicta to sign fresh faces as well.

145 will remain a mess for a while I think. One of the bigger problems facing 145 is that it’s spread over a few organizations, and being that it’s already shallow, it exacerbates an already established problem. Ideally they’d all go to Bellator, but Cyborg is a draw, while Harrison and Anderson have money written all over them, so it likely stays very thin.

 

[Felis]

These numbers are interesting to say the least. Megan has no chance of ever making weight at 135 but her fight night weight was only 1lb more than both Amanda and Cat. I would have thought she would gain more weight after re hydrating. Cyborg fight weight while much bigger than the other 3 was not as high as I thought it would be.

I'd have expected Cris to be higher too. Megan as well.

Does California have any rules on how much weight a fighter is allowed to gain back after weigh-ins?

 

[Felis]

As for whether or not the UFC should keep wFW: Well, I'm still in favor of keeping it.

Theoretically Cyborg losing could have been a good chance for it to develop a bit.
It's really too bad that the one time the UFC actually does some tiny steps in the right direction (= putting another w145 fight on that card) it does not work at all. It would have been really helpful if at least one of Megan and Cat (ideally of course both) would have had an impressive performance there. But with the eye-injury happening so soon it was pretty much a non-fight.

 

[MajorTB]

As for whether or not the UFC should keep wFW: Well, I'm still in favor of keeping it.

Theoretically Cyborg losing could have been a good chance for it to develop a bit.
It's really too bad that the one time the UFC actually does some tiny steps in the right direction (= putting another w145 fight on that card) it does not work at all. It would have been really helpful if at least one of Megan and Cat (ideally of course both) would have had an impressive performance there. But with the eye-injury happening so soon it was pretty much a non-fight.

I’d almost rather see them trade Cyborg and Anderson to Bellator for some of the Male stars. You would then potentially have a division with Cyborg, Julia Budd, Megan Anderson, Amber Leibrock, Olga Rubin, Cindy Dandois, Talita Nogueira, Sinnead Kavanagh, Arlene Belncowe, Janay Harding, and Amanda Bell.

If Bellator was the only money place, it’d then be easier for them to sign Kayla Harrison, Felicia Spencer, Pam Sorenson, Zarah Dos Santos, Zamzagul Fayzallonva, Larissa Pacheco, Bobbi Jo Dalziel, and Zamzagul Fayzallanova. (Throw Danyelle Wolfe in there if she ever actually takes a fight)

Another advantage to keeping the division in Bellator would be their lack of a 135 pound division. They could sign larger 135ers too, like Morgan Frier and Norma Dumont, and fill out the division that way... and since there’s no 135, those fighters take their fights at 145.

 

[msm1981]

I disagree about 135, as there are quite a few up-and-coming talents plus we need to get Kaufman back over to the UFC. With the TUF season over most of the 145ers should drop to 135.

145 has always lacked talent.

That is true there is talent on the independent scene but they need to get to Invicta
which is the next step on the MMA ladder after regional or state level promotions
which is a good start point.

 

[Felis]

I’d almost rather see them trade Cyborg and Anderson to Bellator for some of the Male stars. You would then potentially have a division with Cyborg, Julia Budd, Megan Anderson, Amber Leibrock, Olga Rubin, Cindy Dandois, Talita Nogueira, Sinnead Kavanagh, Arlene Belncowe, Janay Harding, and Amanda Bell.

If Bellator was the only money place, it’d then be easier for them to sign Kayla Harrison, Felicia Spencer, Pam Sorenson, Zarah Dos Santos, Zamzagul Fayzallonva, Larissa Pacheco, Bobbi Jo Dalziel, and Zamzagul Fayzallanova. (Throw Danyelle Wolfe in there if she ever actually takes a fight)

Another advantage to keeping the division in Bellator would be their lack of a 135 pound division. They could sign larger 135ers too, like Morgan Frier and Norma Dumont, and fill out the division that way... and since there’s no 135, those fighters take their fights at 145.

All very good points.

I'm still not fond of the idea tho because
a) despite not being unsuccessful, Bellator still feels like - and probably also really is and will be for the forseeable future - a 2nd rate promotion. The FWs might have a real division, but they don't get nearly the same recognition and money they would get in the UFC. Or do you think Julia Budd has any chance for a 500k or 350k purse? Heck, even Megan's pay is probably much more than most of Bellator's wFWs get.
and
b) I'm too lazy to follow another promotion...

 

[Eater of Souls]

All very good points.

I'm still not fond of the idea tho because
a) despite not being unsuccessful, Bellator still feels like - and probably also really is and will be for the forseeable future - a 2nd rate promotion. The FWs might have a real division, but they don't get nearly the same recognition and money they would get in the UFC. Or do you think Julia Budd has any chance for a 500k or 350k purse? Heck, even Megan's pay is probably much more than most of Bellator's wFWs get.
and
b) I'm too lazy to follow another promotion...

I know you were not replying to me, but the talent level there is just terrible. Budd has losses to both Rousey and Nunes in under a minute, and both of them are smaller women. Her other wins are not exactly impressive. And she is the best they have to offer. IMO, if the 145lbs. division wants to get paid better, it should start doing better.

 

[MajorTB]

All very good points.

I'm still not fond of the idea tho because
a) despite not being unsuccessful, Bellator still feels like - and probably also really is and will be for the forseeable future - a 2nd rate promotion. The FWs might have a real division, but they don't get nearly the same recognition and money they would get in the UFC. Or do you think Julia Budd has any chance for a 500k or 350k purse? Heck, even Megan's pay is probably much more than most of Bellator's wFWs get.
and
b) I'm too lazy to follow another promotion...

Julia probably has a shot to make 50-75k per fight I’d guess. Keep in mind Bellator allows sponsors as well, and anyone with a decent following has a shot to make relatively the same.

Being part of an actual division, they’d make more overtime than they’d make being beat up by 135ers, and or getting one off fights versus Cyborg.

 

[Askafan]

At present the priority should be 135, there were just 12 fights in the UFC division last year, I guess you can blame pregnancy and the exodus to 125. The likes of Pannie and Macy moving down is to be welcomed, also 125ers who fail to make weight should be given the Jessica-Rose option, move up or move out.

If Nunes can defend both belts all well and good but otherwise just let 145 tick over for now, certainly no need to sign fighters or even have a champion. No need to scrap it entirely either. Maybe put a little money into a feeder league, that $110k the UFC just paid Anderson and Zingano would go a long way. Really 145 is just a division in waiting for Harrison, if she ever decides to come. I do agree with Kaitlin that eventually big girls will come, but mma is not something you can pick up just like that.

 

[Dsfdandan]

At present the priority should be 135, there were just 12 fights in the UFC division last year, I guess you can blame pregnancy and the exodus to 125. The likes of Pannie and Macy moving down is to be welcomed, also 125ers who fail to make weight should be given the Jessica-Rose option, move up or move out.

If Nunes can defend both belts all well and good but otherwise just let 145 tick over for now, certainly no need to sign fighters or even have a champion. No need to scrap it entirely either. Maybe put a little money into a feeder league, that $110k the UFC just paid Anderson and Zingano would go a long way. Really 145 is just a division in waiting for Harrison, if she ever decides to come. I do agree with Kaitlin that eventually big girls will come, but mma is not something you can pick up just like that.

i don't think Macy moving down will be permanent, or even successful because she most likely misses weight.


Since they've released the weights I've seen several people say Megan can definitely make 135. Are people that dumb? I have a theory that they were careful with how heavy they came in because of the commission, hence cyborg only being 160 on fight night.

 

[Askafan]

8. I,iûii

i don't think Macy moving down will be permanent, or even successful because she most likely misses weight.


Since they've released the weights I've seen several people say Megan can definitely make 135. Are people that dumb? I have a theory that they were careful with how heavy they came in because of the commission, hence cyborg only being 160 on fight night.

You may well be right about Chiasson, she can always fight Ladd at Junior Featherweight!

I think the California rule is you move up a class if cageweight is 10% more than weigh-in, but it's only a recommendation at present.

 

[MajorTB]

i don't think Macy moving down will be permanent, or even successful because she most likely misses weight.


Since they've released the weights I've seen several people say Megan can definitely make 135. Are people that dumb? I have a theory that they were careful with how heavy they came in because of the commission, hence cyborg only being 160 on fight night.

Megan is bigger than Macy though, so that is something to keep in mind. (I think Megan has heels on here and Macy does not.. but it’s clear Megan has a much larger frame.)

Personally I’d rather not see Macy at 135, but she’s got a better chance of making it.

 

[Rizz]

My thoughts on 135.

Overall it is a weak division but there are some small glimpses of promise. It has the WMMA GOAT as a Champion so that is a plus. Amanda seems to have gotten some popularity from her fight vs Cyborg going viral. We don't know how much that will help her drawing power but that's not for me to care i'm not getting any money from the UFC. We have a promising prospect on the come up in Aspen. There will be an infusion of talent due to overweight 125ers and a few signings from the last TUF. Hopefully they also kept Pannie. This division is not in a great spot but things are trending upward very slowly.

My thoughts on 145.

Overall it's talent level is trash. With that being the case you can still have exciting fights if you match make well. Sign girls like Charmain Tweet, Amanda Bell and Felicia Spencer. They are known for exciting fights. While it won't be the best division you can have some entertaining fights. You have an blue chip prospect we all know is coming in the future in Kayla. I can't believe I am saying this but I have changed my mind and want the UFC to keep 145. They must stay away from fighters like Cindy Dandois. She can fight but can also be an embarrassment due to her pre school level striking. This division can't afford that right now. Stay away from lay and pray or wall and stall fighters. You wont have a high talent level for while but exciting fights can build this division in the eyes of MMA fans.

 

[Felis]

I know you were not replying to me, but the talent level there is just terrible. Budd has losses to both Rousey and Nunes in under a minute, and both of them are smaller women. Her other wins are not exactly impressive. And she is the best they have to offer. IMO, if the 145lbs. division wants to get paid better, it should start doing better.

So her only losses are to the ex-GOAT and the current GOAT - that's not exactly a strong argument for her being a terrible fighter.
From what I've seen of her, she sure seems to be terribly boring to watch, but that's not the same as being a bad fighter. Except from the entertainment aspect, I don't think she's worse than Megan.