Judo Official Judo Thread

Kbits said:
I can dig it. I spent about 5 years trying to learn chen taiji via video back and forth, putting great weight into folks comments, assuming they knew WTF they were on about. I then did what you did (posted video) and got torn a new one. I said "ok, show me yours". Lo and behold...theirs was by and large shit....and the guys that had the goods, had the good in text as well.



Ok, so you're in a bit of a jam.

Judo is a weird sport in that we do it together, but alone. There's a lot of stuff that you have to puzzle out yourself. Ideally, your sensei can help guide you...but you still have to use your brain (and your time) wisely.

Eg:
One of the dumb things I see is people just blasting out uchikomi for speed. Yes, improving your footwork speed is ONE of the things uchikomi can be used for...but it's not the only thing. For example -



For many years, I had a footsweep I would do (a sort of kouchi) that I could mindless blast out for reps. Then, one day, I met a judoka who did the same footsweep....but much, much better. I slowed my uchikomi right down and then realised I had been doing this footsweep wrong for about 5 years. Not ineffective...just sub-optimal. I was able to realise this because 1) I felt the other guy doing it 2) I could compare 3) I had enough judo sense to know why mine was wrong.

This is why it's useful to have a sensei tell you "no, you're dropping your arm here" or "not, step more this way", "yes, good". You need some of that initial positive / negative feedback to figure out the feeling of things. Initially, none of us have good judo sense...so we need experienced people to constrain the scenario in order to produce the right actions



I don't know what your goals are (judo? Bjj?). As I see it, there are two ways to resolve your issue

1) Find another club that has good curriculum / instruction.

In tachiwaza, at my club, all turning throws for beginners kick off the prototype turning throw (ogoshi). Next comes uki-goshi, tsuri-goshi and koshi-guruma. Once you can do these throws well (because they teach you a tremendous amount about turning, pulling, foot placement, timing etc), you are taught things like uchimata, harai-goshi, hanegoshi, ippon seoinage.

The reason we teach this way is that each throw serves as a primer for the next in the series. Competence in the next throw is built on the foundation of the previous one.

You need to find someone who has a system. 'Technique of the week' stuff is the slow road. Note that a blackbelt doesn't equal a good coach or instructor.

2) If you can't find another club to train it: you can do as you say (self coach). This is difficult in the beginning for the reason you identified (you don't know who to listen to) - and also because you don't yet know what's important.

If you elect to self coach, I would suggest working SOLELY on the throws that are most often repeated at your club (footsweep - deashi? hiza? Sasae? Which?). This way, you will get practice AND feedback (because presumably your sensei like these throws / think they're important).

Set yourself the goal of focusing on ONE throw for the next 3-6 months. Just one. Do whatever other stuff they suggest...but put your effort into that throw/footsweep like it owes you money at every possible moment. Doing uchikomi? Do that footsweep. Doing crashmat? That footsweep. Randori - yep, that footsweep.

While you're doing this...do the following
  • Read/watch video. A lot. If it's footsweeps, then the masterclass series of books on Ashiwaza may be of use. If you're a video guy (I am), the www.superstarjudo.com.
  • Think. Learn about the nuances, entries etc for throws. http://thedifficultway.blogspot.com.au/ has information you MUST read through, videos you MUST watch and things you MUST think about (if you're not learning them elsewhere)
  • Post video. Ask SPECIFIC questions on THAT throw. You can post here or on r/judo and good people will help you.
  • Actually try those suggestions that people give. Then post video again.
  • Watch the following video. This is from a BJC/BJA coaching process. This is a good way to teach throws...but it is also a good way to learn throws. Therefore, copy this pattern in your own studies (solo exercises, static uchikomi, moving uchikomi etc).


  • Once you start to develop a sense for this throw....Devour EVERYTHING you can find on that footsweep. You're blessed to live in the age of broadband video...so you can watch a lot of different stuff. I have something like 1000 bookmarked vids in my YT channel (protip: download them and save them...because videos get removed all the time / disappear)
This is your job for the next 3-6 months. I'm not kidding: I spent the 3 months focusing on JUST taiotoshi. I spent 6 months focusing on JUST koshi-guruma. Both of these while allowing other stuff to wash over me ("yeah that's cool...say...what can that teach my about my koshi?)

Meanwhile, keep your mat fitness up with newaza, ukemi etc.

Your last option is to simply give in and focus on BJJ and forget about judo. Not saying this to depress you but sometimes no judo is better than bad judo. Bad habits are hard to undo.

Hope this helps, if even a little. I've been in your situation more than once when trying to learn something. The preferred option is always to find competent coach...but if you have to self coach, it can be done.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply. I think my coaches are fine, but the curriculum they teach is limited by having to accommodate different skill levels and for one other adults that injury easilly. This means that they focus on footsweeps as they are low impact and maybe don't do as much Randori as they should.

Too be honest the Bjj coaches do the same thing in their intro class and lesser extent intermediate class by teaching a theme if the month, but I'm able to progress faster because i go to more Bjj classes and there is more time spent with resisting training partners. Less chance of injury rolling around than being thrown it seems.


I have a question about only working one move for 3 months though. I train with people of different weights and sizes and seoinage for intact is hard to do on someone shorter. Should I try and seionage the short guy anyway ?
 
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it's good to rep throws against different body types, but at a certain point you're either contorting or stretching yourself out too much.

in that video above Tsunoda's clearly bigger than his opponent and he still goes for seoi nage, although he's amazing and can make that work.

i'm ~195cm and i don't seoi nage anyone under about 172 because it doesn't make sense.

there are ideas of a 'big guy' and 'small guy' throw. tsurikomi goshi is not a tall white man's throw. harai isn't gonna work on a much taller opponent unless you've really gotten them bent over.

that's not to say there aren't exceptions. in his last AMA Travis Stevens said tai otoshi isn't a big man's throw. Neil Adams isn't huge, but at 5'10" he's not short, and there's video of him throwing one of my 5'2" senseis with that throw.

really dude, like we've said i think your best bet right now is to really rep out the timing and uchikomi for your turning throws and footsweeps. you've gotta stop relying on dragging people to the ground or you'll never develop good attacking judo.
 
kbits is right about the focus on one throw too. our current practice facility is dollamur mats on wood floors over concrete, and if i did my tokuiwaza (harai, osoto) i'd have killed all of the citrus belts.

i've been focusing almost exclusively on harai tsurikomi ashi during nagekomi and randori for the past 2 months and i'm getting pretty damn good with it.
 
We have a saying here that sums up this scenario: shits fucked.

So yeah: US Judo: shits fucked
 
RJ Green said:
really dude, like we've said i think your best bet right now is to really rep out the timing and uchikomi for your turning throws and footsweeps. you've gotta stop relying on dragging people to the ground or you'll never develop good attacking judo.
Click to expand...

I you are probably right. I'm not even sure trying to drag guys to the ground is a good strategy for BJJ. The coach most familiar with BJJ and Judo competition showed me a ko ouchi gari varation and suggested it would be a good throw I could use in both so that will be my go to move for the next month or so.
 
Kouchi gari is a fine throw. It opens up a lot of stuff and is good all on its own.

I use an analogy when I teach -

"Think of throwing as a can of Spam. In order to get to the meat, you need the can opener (small throw) and the spoon (large throw). Let ko-uchi be the can opener"

Sometimes, you can just open the can (small throw) and scoop out the stuff with your fingers. You get the idea.

Some videos for you to study, along with some teaching notes

Technique Name:
Action-reaction theory #1

Description:
Basic version: forward and backward


Notes:

-Bump backwards with kouchi
-Let him back out to the length of your arms
-When at the end, use that elastic recoil to launch forward throw (eg: ippon seoi)
-Kouchi opens (can opener), ippon throws (spoon)

Video:
 
Does anyone know what ranking system Gokor's Hayastan or Paulson's CSW systems use? Is it "Student Level X" or are there belts?

EDIT: Gokor uses belts / Paulson's uses Student level / coach level it seems.

Question #2: Are there any judo like grappling arts that DONT use belt ranks (other than sambo)? Kurash? Chidaoba?
 
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Kbits said:
Question #2: Are there any judo like grappling arts that DONT use belt ranks (other than sambo)? Kurash? Chidaoba?
Click to expand...
Any non-judo nantional wrestling. Shuai Jao, Gushtingiri, Bökh
 
https://webpoint.usjudo.org/wp15/Email/ViewEmail.asp?ID=03203993&cx=drdrx__vty&pz=idrzidrqppz&aq=tyf

"
May 1, 2017

Dear USA Judo Members,

We would like to thank all the athletes, coaches, referees and volunteers who attended the 2017 USA Judo Senior National Championships. What a great venue to celebrate the 50th anniversary and location of the only judo world championships to ever be held in the United States. Our heartfelt thanks to our Utah hosts and everyone who attended. Please click here for the competition results: http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Judo/Results/2017/April/29/Senior-National-Championships.

The weekend in Salt Lake City also featured the Night of Champions award dinner to honor 2016 Olympic medalists Kayla Harrison and Travis Stevens and 2016 Paralympic medalists Dartanyon Crockett and Christella Garcia. Also honored was past USA Judo President, Lance Nading. The event was well attended with 150 judo enthusiasts to honor some of the most beloved individuals in our sport. Our thanks to our honorees and those in attendance.

For those who were present or have been following social media, both Kayla and Travis expressed deep concerns and frustrations about the processes and some of their experiences with our sport. While it was painful to hear parts of their messages, we appreciate their comments and are committed to creating and maintaining an environment where our talented athletes can develop and prosper. We ask each of you to join us in being positive agents for change. We can all improve and ask that you join us in our efforts to do so.

On a somewhat related note, most of you are aware that virtually all funding for USA Judo’s elite athletes is provided by the United States Olympic Committee based on mutually agreed upon annual high performance plans. We wish we were in a position to provide support for more athletes as well as provide more financial support for those athletes we are able to assist. Your board and executive director are committed to improving our overall operations, policies and procedures to give our athletes and the membership the best service and opportunities possible.

As always, we welcome your input. We are proud of USA Judo Athletes and care for them both as athletes and as individuals. We look forward to your support in joining with us to make USA Judo better and stronger.

Sincerely,

Mark C Hill
President

Keith Bryant
Executive Director"

 
Man, somehow I'm the one with a high and mighty rep here, but some of the responses in the last few pages...

To Thycidides, Judo is a deep deep rabbit hole. One thing we have to recognize is our limitations. Not just physically but our time and resources. So, if your situation I would just do what is fun and feels natural for your body. Ask questions in class - your situation is not ideal but that's what you've got.

Honestly, I don't know if I'd tell my younger self to do Judo either. I liked doing it but it's not really a big part of me anymore, and I am so strapped for time that I wish I had some of the time I spent in Judo back.

Take the long view. As long as you are getting better and not making major mistakes, you will get there one day. Who cares how fast you do. In some ways it will be worse for me if I get better, because going to open mats is my only form of workout. If I don't get beat up then I don't get any exercise.
 
QingTian said:
Man, somehow I'm the one with a high and mighty rep here, but some of the responses in the last few pages...
Click to expand...

nobody-likes-you.gif
 
So I spent my time in randori trying to do ko ouchi makikomi and had limited success. It didn't work so good as a single attack but I think I was able to set up seionage with it.

I could he wrong, but it feels like I have to vary my attack somewhat.


What do you guys think of teaching throws based on skill level and organizing training around belt tests rather than competition? For example today I spent a bunch of time struggling to do tsuri komi goshi and Okuriashi Harai because one of my coach thinks brown belts should be able to do those throws for the test.
 
dude, what'd we tell you about falling down? you've gotta stop trying the new horseshit throw of the week and get the basics down before you go off trying fancy shit. use kouchi/ouchi fients to set up your hip tosses, and use them as follow-up throws if your hip tosses don't work.

for brown belt you damn well better be able to throw okuriashi harai. belt tests shouldn't be a struggle. judo isn't a race. you gotta lose the ego. learning the mechanics of throws will help you develop an appreciation for judo *principles* that you can apply to your go-to throws. if you can't smoothly demonstrate throws on a compliant uke you don't deserve to rank up.

if you want to rank up based on competition, you'd better be beating people at/above your rank 75% of the time. if you want to rank up based *solely* on competition you're completely missing the point. it's like taking a cooking course and only being able to grill steak. like yeah, that shit is delicious, but does that make you a fuckin chef? can you bake? sautee? fry? do you make your spaghetti with noodles from a box and sauce from a jar, or do you make that shit from scratch?

same thing with judo. you gotta learn to cook a lot of dishes with the ingredients you've got. even if you don't necessarily eat them. you've gotta understand the qualitative differences and subtle flavors. you've gotta know when the dish needs more time, and you've gotta pull back before you burn everything.
 
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