Judo Official Judo Thread

ChickenBrother said:
How the hell did Uta not get ippon at 2:20 vs. Primo? Sure she didn't land flat on her back but that's about as clean of an uchi mata as it gets and looks more ippon-worthy than the one in the gold medal match.
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It looked like an overthrow to me. Beautiful technique, but a clear waza-ari to me.
 
Kratos94 said:
It looked like an overthrow to me. Beautiful technique, but a clear waza-ari to me.
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Tough to see from the angle, but it looks like uke lands more on her upper back (at 90 degrees or possibly past it), before her legs land and she turtles. Could be waza ari but looks close. It still looks more ippon-worthy to me than the "ippon" at 4:29 when "uke" clearly attempts a head and arm uchi mata and Uta just goes with it and ends up on top.
 
ChickenBrother said:
How the hell did Uta not get ippon at 2:20 vs. Primo? Sure she didn't land flat on her back but that's about as clean of an uchi mata as it gets and looks more ippon-worthy than the one in the gold medal match.
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The throw certainly had ippon worthy impact and control, but i guess the fact that her lower body was turned to the point where she basically landed on both knees and the side of her torso cost it the scoring. I sorta agree with the decision of it not being ruled ippon. Ironically, if the throw was less clean and had less velocity, Primo may have been unable to overrotate in such a fashion.
 
seatea said:
What fucking genes have they got going on in that family?
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The correct ones apparently. 4 Olympic gold medalists in that family.
Their great grandfather was a judo instructor, their grandfather was the coach of the national team, their uncle and great uncle were both gold medalists.
It's the family business.
 
Patrick Jane said:
The throw certainly had ippon worthy impact and control, but i guess the fact that her lower body was turned to the point where she basically landed on both knees and the side of her torso cost it the scoring. I sorta agree with the decision of it not being ruled ippon. Ironically, if the throw was less clean and had less velocity, Primo may have been unable to overrotate in such a fashion.
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I can see that perspective, but do you think the "ippon" at 4:29 of the Uta vid is deserving? There is far less control and impact and she doesn't even initiate the throw.
 
ChickenBrother said:
I can see that perspective, but do you think the "ippon" at 4:29 of the Uta vid is deserving? There is far less control and impact and she doesn't even initiate the throw.
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I agree that the uchi-mata-sukashi was not deserving of ippon either. You will be pleased to hear that Abe did not actually score ippon with the technique though. It was a waza-ari and she won because the time ran out and Giles failed to score herself for the rest of the bout.

Here is the full match for your reference:

 
Patrick Jane said:
I agree that the uchi-mata-sukashi was not deserving of ippon either. You will be pleased to hear that Abe did not actually score ippon with the technique though. It was a waza-ari and she won because the time ran out and Giles failed to score herself for the rest of the bout.

Here is the full match for your reference:

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Thanks, much appreciated. But is that an uchi mata sukashi? Genuinely curious because I always thought sukashi was only if you whip your own leg out and then take uke over with their own momentum, landing in side control on the near side (of their attempted uchi mata). In this sequence, Uta leaves her leg in there and just goes with the throw, scrambling into side control on the far side of uke's attempted uchi mata.
 
ChickenBrother said:
Thanks, much appreciated. But is that an uchi mata sukashi? Genuinely curious because I always thought sukashi was only if you whip your own leg out and then take uke over with their own momentum, landing in side control on the near side (of their attempted uchi mata). In this sequence, Uta leaves her leg in there and just goes with the throw, scrambling into side control on the far side of uke's attempted uchi mata.
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The side you go to is not relevant for classification. Uchi-mata-sukashi is classified as te-waza and you can avoid uke's leg either by (as you described) stepping aside or (as Uta did here) raising your own leg high. Ideally, you should raise it so high that your leg doesn't stay tangled with uke's so as much velocity as possible is maintained, but in practice that usually doesn't work out.

This (timestamped) video shows a perfect application of the technique:



Here is a compilation of how it usually ends up looking:

 
Patrick Jane said:
The side you go to is not relevant for classification. Uchi-mata-sukashi is classified as te-waza and you can avoid uke's leg either by (as you described) stepping aside or (as Uta did here) raising your own leg high. Ideally, you should raise it so high that your leg doesn't stay tangled with uke's so as much velocity as possible is maintained, but in practice that usually doesn't work out.

This (timestamped) video shows a perfect application of the technique:



Here is a compilation of how it usually ends up looking:

Click to expand...


Got it, thank you. I guess more flexibility is the key here. I never had much success attacking uchi mata (or defending it for that matter) because I'm not very flexible - had more success with hane goshi. Relative to uke, Uta appears to be the more flexible player, which allows her to counter with sukashi as she does in the gold medal match.
 
ChickenBrother said:
Got it, thank you. I guess more flexibility is the key here. I never had much success attacking uchi mata (or defending it for that matter) because I'm not very flexible - had more success with hane goshi. Relative to uke, Uta appears to be the more flexible player, which allows her to counter with sukashi as she does in the gold medal match.
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Often times what happens with uchi-mata is that tori is going for it and uke is trying to defend it and both are hopping around on one leg and see who can raise their leg the highest, but the actual key to who will win lies in utilizing your hands.
 
Patrick Jane said:
Often times what happens with uchi-mata is that tori is going for it and uke is trying to defend it and both are hopping around on one leg and see who can raise their leg the highest, but the actual key to who will win lies in utilizing your hands.
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For sure, and I've been guilty of this recently. It's been years since I've trained with actual Judo guys but lately I've been working on my uchi mata/hane goshi/harai goshi (for my own development) with the BJJ guys I train with now. More often than not, I've been hyper-focused on getting the entry and hip mechanics right but have been forgetting the Judo white belt principle of pulling their sleeve across and "checking my watch" to complete the throw. When I do that, I can usually finish even if hip placement isn't perfect.
 
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Einheri said:
I'm surprised she lost to Chelsea Giles. Giles is good, but on the world stage more of a B lister.
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I wonder what it is about the UK judo elite pipeline that it produces a fairly steady stream of female judokas who can perform at the top and be a threat even to the best but cannot do the same for men. The last British male judoka who has that potential was Craig Fallon (RIP) and that was in the mid-2000s. Of course, there are many higher-profile--and higher paying--sports that draw away many talented male athletes but I would be surprised if that was the only reason.
 
seatea said:
I wonder what it is about the UK judo elite pipeline that it produces a fairly steady stream of female judokas who can perform at the top and be a threat even to the best but cannot do the same for men. The last British male judoka who has that potential was Craig Fallon (RIP) and that was in the mid-2000s. Of course, there are many higher-profile--and higher paying--sports that draw away many talented male athletes but I would be surprised if that was the only reason.
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I think the funding for Judo in the UK is quite poor. It doesn't explain the difference in performance between the sexes. However, when France and Japan are throwing money at their Judoka and seeing great success, and the opposite is true of the UK, you can see that funding is an issue. Judoka in the UK are practically reduced to begging the community for funding - a lot have to self-fund just to compete on the international circuit.
 
Einheri said:
I think the funding for Judo in the UK is quite poor. It doesn't explain the difference in performance between the sexes. However, when France and Japan are throwing money at their Judoka and seeing great success, and the opposite is true of the UK, you can see that funding is an issue. Judoka in the UK are practically reduced to begging the community for funding - a lot have to self-fund just to compete on the international circuit.
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I think it shouldn't be too shocking if different sexes from different countries perform differently, as there tends to be a general difference in style preferences between men and women in all countries.
 
Two days ago, Kodokan 10th dan Yoshimi Osawa died. Now there are five living judo 10th dan in the World.
1) Yi Bang-geun, Korea/USA, born in 1924 and promoted 10th dan in 2010.
2) George Kerr, Great Britain, born in 1937 and promoted 10th dan in 2010.
3) Yoshihiro Uchida, USA, born in 1920 and promoted 10th dan in 2013.
4) Franco Capelletti, Italy, born in 1938 and promoted 10th dan in 2017.
5) Jim Bregman, USA, born in 1941 and promoted 10th dan in 2018.
 
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