Official Judo Thread

shunyata said:
I've been there a few times, my version of nice is that I try to stay standing after the counter o soto and hop away instead of landing in kesa and driving them into the mat.
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I gently slid into kesa and made him tap...
 
nice osoto i try to throw them where i was standing while i hop over and roll out

not nice osoto i try to throw their shoulderblades at their heels but hop off the support leg so you also land on top of them
 
Patrick Jane said:
The difficulty in creating an opening even after establishing a grip as opposed to waiting for one is my bigggest problem in Tachiwaza as well, which is why i was always better at counter throws or combinations from failed attempts.
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This is what I think it the weakest point of Judo teaching. Maybe it's a US problem, maybe not, but there are no good resources that teach you comprehensively how to move and maneuver uke into a throw.

So a large portion of people in Judo never go beyond stand and bang, or strip grips and do one handed shit all day.
 
Okay, maybe I'll disappear for a while again. Just got bored at work.
 
QingTian said:
Wow, this thread is still going.
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I randomly got linked to Sherdog last week and thought I'd look at the forums again. I couldn't believe it myself.

Since my last post (not counting the random one last week), I:
  • Got married
  • Had kids
  • Switched careers
  • Got older and fatter
 
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Looking through the older posts, you always learn new things. I didn't know Dan the Wolfman got banned ...

Also ... wait ... Thai Otoshi is Ippy?
 
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QingTian said:
This is what I think it the weakest point of Judo teaching. Maybe it's a US problem, maybe not, but there are no good resources that teach you comprehensively how to move and maneuver uke into a throw.

So a large portion of people in Judo never go beyond stand and bang, or strip grips and do one handed shit all day.
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I had the same problem in the UK so it's certainly not confined to the States.

We'd spend ages learning all these elaborate throws and drilling uchikomi but we're never taught how to actually execute them. We'd do lots of randori but there was no theory behind it. The more experienced players knew what to do but it was never explained to the rest of us, we were just expected to figure it out for ourselves.

I can count on one had the amount of combinations or setups I was taught. It was so strange, a really massive gap in the teaching. I have no idea why it was like this but it was hugely frustrating.
 
BigDeadFreak said:
I had the same problem in the UK so it's certainly not confined to the States.

We'd spend ages learning all these elaborate throws and drilling uchikomi but we're never taught how to actually execute them. We'd do lots of randori but there was no theory behind it. The more experienced players knew what to do but it was never explained to the rest of us, we were just expected to figure it out for ourselves.

I can count on one had the amount of combinations or setups I was taught. It was so strange, a really massive gap in the teaching. I have no idea why it was like this but it was hugely frustrating.
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IMO it requires high IQ to do more than learn by feel. But if you are a niche sport you can easily end up with a generation where there simply isn't someone high IQ and dedicated to teaching.
 
QingTian said:
IMO it requires high IQ to do more than learn by feel. But if you are a niche sport you can easily end up with a generation where there simply isn't someone high IQ and dedicated to teaching.
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The annoying thing was that there were people at my club who knew this stuff but by the time any of them bothered teaching me it my body was so bashed up after years of randori that I had to quite and do karate instead.
 
uchikomi is good for someone who's already understood the mechanics of the throw and is working on entry speed and directions.

the problem is when it's used to teach beginners. beginners don't understand the mechanics of the throws, let alone nuances. Having them blast through reps of their idea of a throw just lets them reinforce their misconceptions and inefficiencies, doubly so with another beginner who can't correct the particulars.

people trying to 'not lose' randori is also problematic. up until the expert level, nobody gets better at trying to throw someone who doesn't want to be thrown.

it's like trying to teach someone how to throw a football while someone else is trying to tackle them. they're not worried about their mechanics, they're worried about how much the ground hurts.
 
BigDeadFreak said:
The annoying thing was that there were people at my club who knew this stuff but by the time any of them bothered teaching me it my body was so bashed up after years of randori that I had to quite and do karate instead.
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RJ Green said:
uchikomi is good for someone who's already understood the mechanics of the throw and is working on entry speed and directions.

the problem is when it's used to teach beginners. beginners don't understand the mechanics of the throws, let alone nuances. Having them blast through reps of their idea of a throw just lets them reinforce their misconceptions and inefficiencies, doubly so with another beginner who can't correct the particulars.

people trying to 'not lose' randori is also problematic. up until the expert level, nobody gets better at trying to throw someone who doesn't want to be thrown.

it's like trying to teach someone how to throw a football while someone else is trying to tackle them. they're not worried about their mechanics, they're worried about how much the ground hurts.
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Can totally relate to this. I spent four years on a college Judo team with a wrestling background, and I think the only guys who truly became smooth with kazushi were the guys who started Judo as kids and were already shodan when they started college. Guys like me who started Judo at 18 (and were thrown into daily randori without having mastered the throw mechanics) were having to go 100% muscling the shit out of everything against other guys doing the same. So I was either getting clowned by the truly advanced guys who started as kids, or engaging in rock 'em sock 'em TD wars without ever getting to flow or work on finesse.

Ironically, I feel like I've improved my Judo throw mechanics more by standing up with BJJ guys - more relaxed and no pressure since most of them suck at TDs. I can almost always get what I want and they're less stiff and more willing to concede the TD if I time it right, so I'm not having to fight strength on strength against some berzerker fighting the TD to the death and trying to turtle out of everything.
 
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ChickenBrother said:
Can totally relate to this. I spent four years on a college Judo team with a wrestling background, and I think the only guys who truly became smooth with kazushi were the guys who started Judo as kids and were already shodan when they started college. Guys like me who started Judo at 18 (and were thrown into daily randori without having mastered the throw mechanics) were having to go 100% muscling the shit out of everything against other guys doing the same. So I was either getting clowned by the truly advanced guys who started as kids, or engaging in rock 'em sock 'em TD wars without ever getting to flow or work on finesse.

Ironically, I feel like I've improved my Judo throw mechanics more by standing up with BJJ guys - more relaxed and no pressure since most of them suck at TDs. I can almost always get what I want and they're less stiff and more willing to concede the TD if I time it right, so I'm not having to fight strength on strength against some berzerker fighting the TD to the death and trying to turtle out of everything.
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This is very similar to my experience. I started training judo in my mid 20s and found that people who had been doing since they were children were great at all the basics. The rest of us just tried to power through randori sessions without 'losing'. This problem was compounded by the fact that most of us were fairly strong so it became extremely brutal with very little technique.

I started doing karate since I stopped judo and the karate instructor sometimes gets me to teach a bit of judo. Only one of them has any grappling experience so I can just throw them all around at will. It's improved my judo since I now actually get a chance to execute some throws rather than clinging on for dear life against 3rd dans who've been doing it for 30 years.
 
BigDeadFreak said:
This is very similar to my experience. I started training judo in my mid 20s and found that people who had been doing since they were children were great at all the basics. The rest of us just tried to power through randori sessions without 'losing'.
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I guess the first basic they failed to teach people is how randori works and what it's purpose is.
 
Patrick Jane said:
I guess the first basic they failed to teach people is how randori works and what it's purpose is.
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What I love about BJJ is that I feel a "roll" is closer to what randori was intended to be.

But as an old wrestler, where you did everything hard, I dig the competitive mindset of a harder randori in judo...at least at the US clubs I've trained at.

To each their own, there's +s and -s to all levels of resistance.
 
Thrawn33 said:
What I love about BJJ is that I feel a "roll" is closer to what randori was intended to be.

But as an old wrestler, where you did everything hard, I dig the competitive mindset of a harder randori in judo...at least at the US clubs I've trained at.

To each their own, there's +s and -s to all levels of resistance.
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I don't think there is supposed to be one fixed intensity during randori. It depends, among other things, on who your partner is. But even with that considered, there is a difference between going hard and and just trying not to lose. The latter is something one of those competition addicts in my club always asked me to do so he can prepare to deal with passive opponents in tournaments.
 
I always knew Ludwig Paisher's newaza was good, but I never really noticed just how unusual it is.

 
Kind of inspiring that Judo practice on the highest level looks pretty much exactly like regular Judo practice.

 
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