Official Judo Thread VIII

[RJ Green]

dude...I love Onq to death but does that motherfucker look 21 to you?

 

[Kbits]

The motherfucker does not...but age fucks us all over. I started getting gray hairs at 22 - and given they probably drink battery acid recreationaly in eastern europe, I thought I'd better ask, just in-case.

 

[Ethan]

I am not going to waste time and explain who I am and what I do to every new guy in F12.
If you are smart, you could click on a few links, check posts history and you will know better.
I dont know why every SnC including, but not limited to big lifts have to be PL. Crossfiters also use the big 3, are they powerlifters?
PL protocols are good for PL. Combat athletes dont need to excell in static lifts. They can def benefit from strength training, but there are zero reasons to limit grappler's training to PL. There are many better ways to get stronger at gripping, throwing and controling resisting opponent. Especially when you need to do it for 5 min. Then rest a few and repeat, progressing in quality of the opponents.
There is nothing in PL training, that translates into repeatedly using same amount of explosive force for 5 min, even when your muscles are filled with lactic acid.

I don't disagree with any of that and I'm not sure what makes you think I do. Like I said earlier, I misinterpreted your original post and it's a question of semantics.

 

[Thai Otoshi]

RJ... the Einarr is strong in you. He would be proud of the f12er you've become.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Hah, I know that kid, but he could be my son
My competition years are behind me.
More into coaching and event/ training camp organizing now.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Training with squat/bench/deadlift=/= powerlifting.

For enthusiasts, and just people in general, just doing some variation of squat/upper body push/horizontal pull/vertical pull is enough. If you choose to fill those up with a barbell squat/bench/DB row/pull-up then that's fine. If you choose to fill those up with split-squat/DB pressing/barbell row/pull-up then that's fine too. The only possible difference is that it may be more difficult to progress with DB pressing as compared to barbell pressing, and vice versa.

This is a silly thing to argue over anyhow.



No idea.

Of course its not PL. And I dont know why every time someone brings barbel training, the first thing he is told is "do the big 3".
If you really need to limit your self to 3 lifts, you could achieve same results with Bulgarian split squat, high pull and dips.
What I was refering to, was that PL doesnt use ballistic exercises or high rep training methods, which is what you need for grappling. Of course you could be supplementing with big lift here and there, but that should not be the focus of the training.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

everything apparently, you commie bastards!

Training methodology, vodka and point of view

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

 

[doyourkegles22]

Training methodology, vodka and point of view

you beat me to it.


I swear, when I went to a wrestling camp in Poland, a couple of the instructors smelled of Vodka and cigs. True story!


On S&C anything is better than none! Two words: Neuromuscular recruitment! That's all I have, I'm no longer a certified personal trainer so i'm not up to scuff with all the new farkles of S&C.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Of course its not PL. And I dont know why every time someone brings barbel training, the first thing he is told is "do the big 3".
If you really need to limit your self to 3 lifts, you could achieve same results with Bulgarian split squat, high pull and dips.
What I was refering to, was that PL doesnt use ballistic exercises or high rep training methods, which is what you need for grappling. Of course you could be supplementing with big lift here and there, but that should not be the focus of the training.

There's a big role for periodization as well. If you're trying to significantly increase raw, maximum strength, the big 3 are going to be your best bet. If you're trying to get in shape for competitions, increase muscular endurance, and specifically train fast twitch muscles, they're not going to be as good as more sport specific interval training. If you actually have an in-season and out-of-season (which most amateur grapplers do not) then I wouldn't do much heavy, low rep lifting at all in-season. It's just not going to be what you need at that point. But it might be a lot of what I do out-of-season, if my goal during that time period is to add to my max strength.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

...given the tenor of "do you even know who I am, bro?"...

I believe you are putting your words in my mouth
Lets just say that by 2017, I will have my second MD, as a wrestling and sambo coach from the National Sport Academy of Bulgaria. Thats besides my coaching experience in 2 foreign countries.
The last training camp I did, with a national team was 4 months ago, with the veteran sambo team of Bulgaria. Those guys still do volumes of 14 tons of weightlifting AFTER hour and a half of sparrings, which is not even competition preparation protocol, but pure maintenance.
Im putting aside my achievements in several different sports.
So, who are you, bro?

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

There's a big role for periodization as well. If you're trying to significantly increase raw, maximum strength, the big 3 are going to be your best bet. If you're trying to get in shape for competitions, increase muscular endurance, and specifically train fast twitch muscles, they're not going to be as good as more sport specific interval training. If you actually have an in-season and out-of-season (which most amateur grapplers do not) then I wouldn't do much heavy, low rep lifting at all in-season. It's just not going to be what you need at that point. But it might be a lot of what I do out-of-season, if my goal during that time period is to add to my max strength.

OK, but preparation for what?
Bench press does not translate in grappling.
And single leg lifts are a lot better, especially for stand up grapplers.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

you beat me to it.


I swear, when I went to a wrestling camp in Poland, a couple of the instructors smelled of Vodka and cigs. True story!

Thats standard
My japanese judo coaches were always having a cig break between randori rounds.
And my british boxing coach, from a few years ago, was practically spending his entire coaching sessions, chain smoking at the entrance of the gym, while cursing and yelling instructions.

 

[Ethan]

OK, but preparation for what?
Bench press does not translate in grappling.
And single leg lifts are a lot better, especially for stand up grapplers.

Absolutely. I use the push press instead of the bench and the split squat as heavy squat assistance now.

 

[Uchi Mata]

OK, but preparation for what?
Bench press does not translate in grappling.
And single leg lifts are a lot better, especially for stand up grapplers.

Bench press as a motion doesn't, but if you want to train the pectorals and anterior deltoids for maximum strength, it's a great movement. The strength is still useful even if the motion is not. Though I do agree that chest strength is less important for grappling than hip, leg, or back strength (but still not useless by any means).

Regarding single leg lifts, if you're striving for maximum strength the best way to achieve that is going to be the lifts that allow you to put the most stress on the muscles and carry the most weight, which are the standard back squat and deadlift. Again, I'm talking about off season development of maximum strength. It doesn't make as much sense to be doing conditioning circuits in the off season as peak condition is impossible to maintain year round and it fades quickly when you change your routine. During the season, when getting ready for competition, then I think single leg stuff makes a lot more sense as you're usually training more for power endurance and explosive strength than maximum strength on a static lift. When I'm circuit training leading up to competitions I do a lot of lunges with heavy kettlebells, jumping split squats, that sort of thing. It definitely helps with speed on shooting and with popping my hips for throws.

 

[Kbits]

Hi Onq

I'm no one in particular. As a new guy, I was just making comment that I didn't know who you were - for all I know, based on how it was phrased, you could have been Neil Adams or Igor kurinnoy. That's why I asked; no disrespect meant.

I have no problem with your approach to SPP...it's very similar to what's expoused by my own coach. Horses for courses though - I've climbed that fucking rope enough times for one lifetime and done enough chin ups using pliers not to want to subject others to it

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Bench press as a motion doesn't, but if you want to train the pectorals and anterior deltoids for maximum strength, it's a great movement. The strength is still useful even if the motion is not. Though I do agree that chest strength is less important for grappling than hip, leg, or back strength (but still not useless by any means).

Regarding single leg lifts, if you're striving for maximum strength the best way to achieve that is going to be the lifts that allow you to put the most stress on the muscles and carry the most weight, which are the standard back squat and deadlift. Again, I'm talking about off season development of maximum strength. It doesn't make as much sense to be doing conditioning circuits in the off season as peak condition is impossible to maintain year round and it fades quickly when you change your routine. During the season, when getting ready for competition, then I think single leg stuff makes a lot more sense as you're usually training more for power endurance and explosive strength than maximum strength on a static lift. When I'm circuit training leading up to competitions I do a lot of lunges with heavy kettlebells, jumping split squats, that sort of thing. It definitely helps with speed on shooting and with popping my hips for throws.

I can agree if its situated like that.
It depends on the focus of the training and the period.
In general, a grappler dont need the strength level of a powerlifter.
The grappler also would need to execute a lift with a certain speed, so slow, maximum effort has it benefits for a very short time, during the year.
Multiple angles lifts will do a great favor, reinforcing the tendons and small muscles, providing better balance and smaller injury risk.
But there is a time for everything.
I believe Zankou just wants to get buff

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Hi Onq

I'm no one in particular. As a new guy, I was just making comment that I didn't know who you were - for all I know, based on how it was phrased, you could have been Neil Adams or Igor kurinnoy. That's why I asked; no disrespect meant.

I have no problem with your approach to SPP...it's very similar to what's expoused by my own coach. Horses for courses though - I've climbed that fucking rope enough times for one lifetime and done enough chin ups using pliers not to want to subject others to it

I bet you will need Google to find who coached Neil Adams and Igor Kurinnoy
Do you get my point?

 

[Uchi Mata]

I can agree if its situated like that.
It depends on the focus of the training and the period.
In general, a grappler dont need the strength level of a powerlifter.
The grappler also would need to execute a lift with a certain speed, so slow, maximum effort has it benefits for a very short time, during the year.
Multiple angles lifts will do a great favor, reinforcing the tendons and small muscles, providing better balance and smaller injury risk.
But there is a time for everything.
I believe Zankou just wants to get buff

I actually do agree with you, so much so that I'm in the process of selling my power rack and weights (for a combination of space, time, and injury reasons) while planning to buy more kettlebells and maybe a Bulgarian bag. I think high maximal strength is overrated for grapplers, but you do need a good baseline and I think some big 3 training is useful for that. But what's more useful: being able to squat 400 lbs or squat 225 lbs many, many times? Sure, having a 400 lb squat will make squatting 225 easier, but it will also come with more bulk in a weight class sport and the training for squatting 400 lbs once isn't going to give you the same ancillary cardio and endurance benefit that working on higher rep/lower weight interval style training will.

 

[Zankou]

Really I'm just working my way up to this:

[YT]9GVn2qcEo08[/YT]

No, seriously, #jaktntan.

In good news, I just got back from checkup with the nose surgeon who cleared me to resume judo right away .... awesome ... Monday session, here I come!