Official Judo Thread VIII

i'm no regionally certified referee or anything, but i believe the interpretation of the rules is that groundwork is just that - standing submissions don't exist because you're standing.

if you want to submit, enter into groundwork in a controlled manner.
 
Thrawn33 said:
Been submitted with Waki in competition, not fun.
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Oh my God.

That sounds horrible. That thing hurts even when people barely apply pressure. I don't want to imagine how painful it would be if people used it on you in a comp.
 
RJ Green said:
i'm no regionally certified referee or anything, but i believe the interpretation of the rules is that groundwork is just that - standing submissions don't exist because you're standing.

if you want to submit, enter into groundwork in a controlled manner.
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I am a regionally-certified referee, and standing subs are perfectly legal.

The rules state under Article 16, para 2 "Situations that allows the passage from Tachi-waza to Newaza", "c. When one contestant obtains some considerable effect by applying a Shime-waza or Kansetsu-waza in the standing position and then changes without interruption to Newaza"

So it is clear from there that standing subs are allowed. Article 20, para 1 of the rules states that ippon is awarded:
"c. When a contestant gives up by tapping twice (2) or more with his hand or foot or says Maitta (I give up!) generally as a result of Osaekomi-waza, Shime-waza or Kansetsu-waza.
d. When a contestant is incapacitated by the effect of a Shime-waza or Kansetsu-waza"

It doesn't make an exception on whether the waza is executed standing or on the ground. The only restriction on kansetsu-waza is that it must be applied to the elbow.
 
i was being sarcastic. i'm a regional ref. you're still wrong.

the rules as worded implicitly state that you have to transition to newaza, which is what i was saying.

you can START a submission while standing, provided you take uke to the ground safely. you can't COMPLETE a submission while standing, and almost every instance of doing so is dangerous as fuck. the passage to newaza from tachiwaza has to happen. period.

torquing the shit out of their arm with a wakigatame in an attempt to drive them to the ground and damaging their arm in the process is not only a hansokumake for unsportsmanlike conduct, but specifically mentioned as a hansokumake.

this isn't my interpretation, this is the interpretation from the mouth of guys on the referee comission

Joe Dwarf said:
I am a regionally-certified referee, and standing subs are perfectly legal.

The rules state under Article 16, para 2 "Situations that allows the passage from Tachi-waza to Newaza", "c. When one contestant obtains some considerable effect by applying a Shime-waza or Kansetsu-waza in the standing position and then changes without interruption to Newaza"

So it is clear from there that standing subs are allowed. Article 20, para 1 of the rules states that ippon is awarded:
"c. When a contestant gives up by tapping twice (2) or more with his hand or foot or says Maitta (I give up!) generally as a result of Osaekomi-waza, Shime-waza or Kansetsu-waza.
d. When a contestant is incapacitated by the effect of a Shime-waza or Kansetsu-waza"

It doesn't make an exception on whether the waza is executed standing or on the ground. The only restriction on kansetsu-waza is that it must be applied to the elbow.
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Mother Nature countered my Thursday night class with winter weather, hope she don't follow up and attack my Friday and Sat Judo plans, otherwise that bish is getting Osoto'd
 
RJ Green said:
i was being sarcastic. i'm a regional ref. you're still wrong.

the rules as worded implicitly state that you have to transition to newaza, which is what i was saying.
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It's possible that I am wrong, but what the rules say is that you are allowed to use locks to transition to the ground, not that you have to be on the ground to finish.
you can START a submission while standing, provided you take uke to the ground safely. you can't COMPLETE a submission while standing, and almost every instance of doing so is dangerous as fuck. the passage to newaza from tachiwaza has to happen. period.

torquing the shit out of their arm with a wakigatame in an attempt to drive them to the ground and damaging their arm in the process is not only a hansokumake for unsportsmanlike conduct, but specifically mentioned as a hansokumake.

this isn't my interpretation, this is the interpretation from the mouth of guys on the referee comission
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The rules say it is hansokumaki "To fall directly to the Tatami while applying or attempting to apply techniques such as Ude-hishigi-waki-gatame", which means basically don't throw the guy with the lock. They don't say you can't finish while still standing. I'll check with my higher-uppers, I'm only provincially ranked.
 
My boss gave me the day off, so I was compiling videos for the highlight, but... looks like I won't be doing an ura nage highlight. There's already several on Youtube.

Back to the drawing board.

btw, I'm going with Keiichi Suzuki's Festivo for the background music.
 
What about tai otoshi? Don't think I've seen one of those before.
 
Judo Thai Boxer said:
What about tai otoshi? Don't think I've seen one of those before.
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I actually decided to do one on tai o immediately after posting that. The one tai o vid I used to used to post ITT before (which Qing just posted) was made like 5 years ago.

I have some good recent tai otoshi examples that I'll throw together with some of the older ones from that vid.
 
Joe Dwarf said:
The effect is obvious when uke taps. Standing locks are legal so long as you don't throw with them. They're uncommon because they're tough to get (less control of the body) and you risk getting countered with a throw.
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Back in the days, in the eighties and ninties I got 6 – 7 Ippons in tournaments by standing waki-gatame. None of those tapped, but the effect was considered „obvious“ or „apparent“ when screaming loud in pain and rolling around on mat holding elbow in pain. No need for tapping to get Ippon for kanzetsu-waza, at least that‘s how it was then. And those were standing arm locks no transition to the ground at all...
 
Ippy said:
I actually decided to do one on tai o immediately after posting that. The one tai o vid I used to used to post ITT before (which Qing just posted) was made like 5 years ago.

I have some good recent tai otoshi examples that I'll throw together with some of the older ones from that vid.
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I would love a Tai O video! I need more motivation and my go too video is the one posted, which is sort of dated and long in the tooth.

Do it!
 
Joe Dwarf said:
It's possible that I am wrong, but what the rules say is that you are allowed to use locks to transition to the ground, not that you have to be on the ground to finish.
The rules say it is hansokumaki "To fall directly to the Tatami while applying or attempting to apply techniques such as Ude-hishigi-waki-gatame", which means basically don't throw the guy with the lock. They don't say you can't finish while still standing. I'll check with my higher-uppers, I'm only provincially ranked.
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First I asked our black belts because I was all "awww why not?" and one is an INTL B Godan, and what he said is what I just said.

Then I asked a few of the refs at collegiate nationals the other year and they said the same thing.

And then I reffed our state games like a month or two ago and got my accreditation from Bill Graves so I asked him and he told me the same thing and he wrote the test so I believed him and I'm pretty was head ref of the...hemisphere? or something?

so yeah. not gonna say you're WRONG, i'm just saying a LOT of old men in suits have told me otherwise
 
RJ, there's two organisations in the US right? Can't you just get your shodan in the other one and they'd be pretty much forced to transfer it over if you applied for it, wouldn't they?
 
I am white belt(been training judo for 4 months) and 6'2'' tall. I discovered that i throw most people easily and in pretty much mostly with sacrafice throws tani otoshi, ura nage and especially yoko guruma(if i get left arm across their back they will go flying). Would it affect my judo learning if i focus on them, on their set-ups...? And what are some set-ups for them beside waiting for them to turn in?
 
They are counters and are the easiest throws to succeed with at first.

You don't want to be that guy who just takes defensive posture and looks to counter, it makes it very hard to learn judo (though you will have easy success with it at first).
 
I don't wait i am always fighting to get left arm around their waist which is pretty har to do if he is blocking you with collar grip.
 
Zankou said:
They are counters and are the easiest throws to succeed with at first.
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This. Go to a tournament and you'll get shido'd out of a round because you're trying to counter and play defensive.

Learn how to grip fight and throw Osoto gari, Harai goshi, and Uchi mata.
 
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