*OFFICIAL* Jon Jones Victim Support Thread

Pequeño Corey said:
I'll say it again.

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I don't know how you can look at some of the physiques in the sport and not arrive at the same conclusion. Then there's those "clean" athletes with sus conditions that are known side effects of steroids like gyno or HGH gut. Then there's the guys whose physiques noticeably changed during the USADA era.

That's fine though, you have your criteria, and you're entitled to that opinion. Just know that the underlying premise (no failed tests means you're clean) is flawed, at best. We all know that some guys are just better at beating the test.
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Thing is even if you started off with the premise that they’re all on peds, then you still have all of the fouls. Nobody has a combined record of shameful behavior like Jones. Cheating in the cage and outside of the cage, and now you can add blatant ducking as well.

It’s the most we’ve ever seen a fighter cut corners and cheat. Jones fans don’t care, any level of cheating is ok as long as you don’t lose etc.

Jones fans are gonna have to realize that’s an extreme minority viewpoint.
 
Alpha_T83 said:
And yet Jon Jones has failed the most tests, so much that the UFC had to pull some shady shit with the NSAC to avoid a lifetime ban.

So even if every fighter is using steroids, Jon Jones is still doing something above and beyond what they are doing to get caught.
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He also actively tried to fraud USADA with a fake signature. No one talks about that one and I feel like it should be brought up more. He tried to plead ignorance based on a fake signature that was actually made on his behalf
 
Mohawk Banditó said:
He also actively tried to fraud USADA with a fake signature. No one talks about that one and I feel like it should be brought up more. He tried to plead ignorance based on a fake signature that was actually made on his behalf
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Was that the time he gave them fake receipts for his "dick pills", and then when he finally gave them the real receipts, those same receipts also had orders for the two PEDs he tested positive for?
 
Alpha_T83 said:
Was that the time he gave them fake receipts for his "dick pills", and then when he finally gave them the real receipts, those same receipts also had orders for the two PEDs he tested positive for?
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Haha not even then. This was the 2018 case where they talk about the original signing off on the educational material USADA gives you and makes you sign that include warning you on the risks of tainted supplements and how to operate with USADA


 
Mike said:
Thing is even if you started off with the premise that they’re all on peds, then you still have all of the fouls. Nobody has a combined record of shameful behavior like Jones. Cheating in the cage and outside of the cage, and now you can add blatant ducking as well.

It’s the most we’ve ever seen a fighter cut corners and cheat. Jones fans don’t care, any level of cheating is ok as long as you don’t lose etc.

Jones fans are gonna have to realize that’s an extreme minority viewpoint.
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Yea interesting how the referees never enforced the rules, and as far as I can tell, Jon has never had a point deducted for an eyepoke. Just a side question, do you consider DC a cheater for what he did to Stipe? Just want to make sure you're being consistent with that energy. And for the record, I don't think it's ok or honorable, I just acknowledge that the sport is broken and the refs share the blame for this.

As for ducking, let's again make sure you're keeping that same energy. Is GSP disqualified from GOAT discussions because he ducked the MW contenders after beating Bisping? And yet again, the UFC shares the blame for letting Jon hold on the belt for so long. Also for the record, I think he should have retired as soon as he beat Stipe. I don't, and never have defended Jon's belt squatting.

Being in the minority or majority means nothing to me, especially in the context of a karate forum. Many people, to include other great fighters, consider Jon to be the best to ever do it. That hasn't changed, and will never change. Those of us who know are very secure in this fact, so we don't feel the need to flood the heavies with hate threads and bitch sessions.
 
Alpha_T83 said:
And yet Jon Jones has failed the most tests, so much that the UFC had to pull some shady shit with the NSAC to avoid a lifetime ban.

So even if every fighter is using steroids, Jon Jones is still doing something above and beyond what they are doing to get caught.
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Drug tests are essentially an intelligence test. I never said Jon was smart.
 
Pequeño Corey said:
Jon has a DQ loss, yes. But he's still undefeated. Matt Hamill did not beat Jon Jones. Jon Jones was disqualified, which technically is a loss.

Interesting how Fedor's "Loss" to Kohsaka isn't leveraged in the same fashion when Fedor's 10 year streak is being put forth as evidence of his GOATness.
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Call me old school, but I consider "undefeated" to mean you have a zero in your loss column, and he doesn't.

And you don't have to be undefeated to be the GOAT. Ask anyone who says GSP, Anderson, or Fedor is the GOAT.
 
Pequeño Corey said:
Yea interesting how the referees never enforced the rules, and as far as I can tell, Jon has never had a point deducted for an eyepoke. Just a side question, do you consider DC a cheater for what he did to Stipe? Just want to make sure you're being consistent with that energy. And for the record, I don't think it's ok or honorable, I just acknowledge that the sport is broken and the refs share the blame for this.

As for ducking, let's again make sure you're keeping that same energy. Is GSP disqualified from GOAT discussions because he ducked the MW contenders after beating Bisping? And yet again, the UFC shares the blame for letting Jon hold on the belt for so long. Also for the record, I think he should have retired as soon as he beat Stipe. I don't, and never have defended Jon's belt squatting.

Being in the minority or majority means nothing to me, especially in the context of a karate forum. Many people, to include other great fighters, consider Jon to be the best to ever do it. That hasn't changed, and will never change. Those of us who know are very secure in this fact, so we don't feel the need to flood the heavies with hate threads and bitch sessions.
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Yeah the refs are terrible in general at enforcing the rules, especially when it comes to repeat offenders. If DC poked all the time like Jones he absolutely would get more criticism. I find the Stipe fight criticism bizarre TBH with you.

I'm not a fan of either of those dudes at all, and after the fight it was just both fanbases posting clips of the guys eye poking each other. And arguing about which eyepokes were worse or on purpose. I personally can't be mad about a fight where both guys are pawing at each others faces open handed and I don't like either dude.

As far as the ducking thing goes let's be real and make reasonable comparisons lol. GSP said he was sick, so just to start off with you have to assume he was lying and every GSP hater immediately does without any proof every time this comes up. When discussing a guy that never ducked anyone his entire career, but annoying. But anyway even if you assume he was lying and ducking, he vacated immediately and didn't hold the division up for years. Compare that to Jones who:

Cherry picked a shot, retired man for his first defense. One of the worst cherry picks we've ever seen in the sports history. Even Ping had just ktfo of the legit champ when GSP fought him. Stipe was inactive for four years, and the last thing we saw him do is look awful and get his ass beat. And here's the thing man. A lot of people myself included, weren't all that mad about it at first. Because hw sucks anyway.

But then all he injuries and postponements happened and they still clung to that crap fight nobody wanted. And even after THAT, a lot of people weren't really mad. Dana was saying if course he'll fight Tom after, Jones fans were saying the same thing. Then he wasted another year trying to see if he could maneuver into fighting AP or someone else instead of Tom.

That's the point where most people actually started to get mad, and at this point he's been holding the division up for years and there were legit contenders even at hw. Seems crazy to me that it's out of line for fans to be mad after all that bullshit. So you can't really blame people for taking their victory lap now, this is sherdog. A lot of people vehemently denied it would play out exactly the way is has, and now they're getting there I told you so just like any other time. This ain't new.
 
PaulieVegas27 said:
Call me old school, but I consider "undefeated" to mean you have a zero in your loss column, and he doesn't.

And you don't have to be undefeated to be the GOAT. Ask anyone who says GSP, Anderson, or Fedor is the GOAT.
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Well then how about "unbeaten"?
 
Pequeño Corey said:
Drug tests are essentially an intelligence test. I never said Jon was smart.
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I don't think that's true. That's the propaganda talking point that Jones fans have been using.

I think Jon Jones got his steroid regimen from his NFL athlete brothers, and was just ahead of the rest of the MMA world in terms of doping.
 
Mike said:
Yeah the refs are terrible in general at enforcing the rules, especially when it comes to repeat offenders. If DC poked all the time like Jones he absolutely would get more criticism. I find the Stipe fight criticism bizarre TBH with you.
I'm not a fan of either of those dudes at all, and after the fight it was just both fanbases posting clips of the guys eye poking each other. And arguing about which eyepokes were worse or on purpose. I personally can't be mad about a fight where both guys are pawing at each others faces open handed and I don't like either dude.

As far as the ducking thing goes let's be real and make reasonable comparisons lol. GSP said he was sick, so just to start off with you have to assume he was lying and every GSP hater immediately does without any proof every time this comes up. When discussing a guy that never ducked anyone his entire career, but annoying. But anyway even if you assume he was lying and ducking, he vacated immediately and didn't hold the division up for years. Compare that to Jones who:

Cherry picked a shot, retired man for his first defense. One of the worst cherry picks we've ever seen in the sports history. Even Ping had just ktfo of the legit champ when GSP fought him. Stipe was inactive for four years, and the last thing we saw him do is look awful and get his ass beat. And here's the thing man. A lot of people myself included, weren't all that mad about it at first. Because hw sucks anyway.

But then all he injuries and postponements happened and they still clung to that crap fight nobody wanted. And even after THAT, a lot of people weren't really mad. Dana was saying if course he'll fight Tom after, Jones fans were saying the same thing. Then he wasted another year trying to see if he could maneuver into fighting AP or someone else instead of Tom.

That's the point where most people actually started to get mad, and at this point he's been holding the division up for years and there were legit contenders even at hw. Seems crazy to me that it's out of line for fans to be mad after all that bullshit. So you can't really blame people for taking their victory lap now, this is sherdog. A lot of people vehemently denied it would play out exactly the way is has, and now they're getting there I told you so just like any other time. This ain't new.
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Stipe vs. DC II and III were just Stipe saying "fuck it" and responding in kind. He finally had enough. In just the first round of their first fight, DC was warned four (yes, four, I'm not making it up) times about his fingers. Goddard only stopped the action once after DC threw a jab with his thumb extended. It's absolutely absurd.

Agree, GSP did the right thing by vacating, and I've said many times that Jon should have done the same. But in the end, ducking is still ducking, whether you vacate immediately, or champ squat like Jon did. They both chose not to hang around and fight the top contenders. That said, Jon actually defended his belt, albeit against the corpse of Stipe. Again, DC should get dishonorable mention here for ducking the Stipe rematch and choosing to fight Lewis. And much like Jon was perhaps pursuing AP, DC was obviously pursuing Brock. This is prize fighting, after all. We've seen this stuff before.

And I don't think fans are out of line for being displeased with the Jon situation. Hell, I'm displeased about it myself. And frankly, I have no idea why anyone is doing a victory lap. Jon still retired unbeaten (yes I know a DQ is technically a loss), so haters will never get the satisfaction of seeing him KO'd, plus, we never got the Tom fight. There's nothing to celebrate other than the fact he retired and we can all move on. Jon's legacy isn't somehow erased because he didn't fight Tom Aspinall. That's just pure delusion. You can draw the line at steroids, if you want, but for everyone else, he's still the LHW GOAT (easily). P4P is weird so i won't debate it, but prime Jon perhaps could have beaten many of the great HWs. We'll never know. And I don't care who you are, the way he handled Gane was impressive.
 
Lol at this queer having the dedication to make a lengthy thread in defence of this clown while telling all the haters they are overly invested here
 
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