Obama Administration Seeks Race-Based Government In Hawaii

[Lord of Lies]

How many Hawaiians are actually left?

 

[drainbamage]

Did they sign a treaty giving them special privileges when they became a state though? If not what principle is used to justify this? Racial politics is so dangerous.

Perhaps you might want to look into the history of Hawaii's annexation. But really rough shod cliff notes:

- U.S. Needs a coal resupply point for crossing pacific to "open up" the eastern asian markets.

- spots Hawaii

- overthrows/deposes a legal monarchy with hundreds (if not thousands) of years of legal standing through military power

- says "you are now property of the USA"

- present day.


I clearly don't know the background on the bill, have no love for most republicrat ideas, but if this bill is designed to give some legal boosting to the ethnically indigenous population and allow them similar privileges as to continental "NA's"- I dont see the need for hysterics in discussing the idea. Its based on precident, is needed (unless you think of HI as a massive tourist resort of white New Englander culture as being a good and normal thing,) and could help undo some of the damages that were done at the hands of a centralized government.

 

[OldGoat]

Perhaps you might want to look into the history of Hawaii's annexation. But really rough shod cliff notes:

- U.S. Needs a coal resupply point for crossing pacific to "open up" the eastern asian markets.

- spots Hawaii

- overthrows/deposes a legal monarchy with hundreds (if not thousands) of years of legal standing through military power

- says "you are now property of the USA"

- present day.


I clearly don't know the background on the bill, have no love for most republicrat ideas, but if this bill is designed to give some legal boosting to the ethnically indigenous population and allow them similar privileges as to continental "NA's"- I dont see the need for hysterics in discussing the idea. Its based on precident, is needed (unless you think of HI as a massive tourist resort of white New Englander culture as being a good and normal thing,) and could help undo some of the damages that were done at the hands of a centralized government.

It's now a state. If natives to the island did not get a special treaty then they don't get one now. Therefore it does more harm than good to promote the idea of special rights based upon genetics. I doubt this will be ruled constitutional. It shouldnt even get to that point though due to the fact that executive branch regulatory agencies shouldn't have the power they do anyways.

 

[drainbamage]

It's now a state. If natives to the island did not get a special treaty then they don't get one now.

Are you basing your thinking on historical dealings with mainland NA's or just anti-Obama stuff?

 

[Zankou]

I don't have a positive impression of the reservation system, but I know little about it. Like most, I tend to think of reservations (whether American, Australian, Canadian) as extremely depressing places full of crime. So I guess I can understand the desire to retain special economic benefits -- fine -- but isolating and segregating those with native blood as 'different citizens' doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

I don't have a positive impression of the reservation system, but I know little about it. Like most, I tend to think of reservations (whether American, Australian, Canadian) as extremely depressing places full of crime. So I guess I can understand the desire to retain special economic benefits -- fine -- but isolating and segregating those with native blood as 'different citizens' doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

Went to Honolulu recently and outside of the touristy area and some pockets here and there it already seems like a reservation.

 

[Zankou]

I get that the land was stolen and they were mistreated, but at some point it has to be understood that traditional ways of life are fucking horrible in so many ways, and people need to be integrated into modern states and modern societies. So again, I am very skeptical of leaving state functions in the hands of 'sovereign' entities that are not themselves capable modern states.

 

[OldGoat]

Are you basing your thinking on historical dealings with mainland NA's or just anti-Obama stuff?

Neither are relevant are they? Can you find me a link saying the US federal government has some form of treaty that is still in effect with a Hawaiian tribe?

 

[OldGoat]

I get that the land was stolen and they were mistreated, but at some point it has to be understood that traditional ways of life are fucking horrible in so many ways, and people need to be integrated into modern states and modern societies. So again, I am very skeptical of leaving state functions in the hands of 'sovereign' entities that are not themselves capable modern states.

And which are used to enrich a few corrupt "racial" or "tribal" leaders which enact policies that keep the rest of the tribe poor and undereducated... Not that there is any historical evidence of THAT ever happening.

And if you go back far enough all land is stolen in some form.

 

[Denter]

It's now a state. If natives to the island did not get a special treaty then they don't get one now. Therefore it does more harm than good to promote the idea of special rights based upon genetics. I doubt this will be ruled constitutional. It shouldnt even get to that point though due to the fact that executive branch regulatory agencies shouldn't have the power they do anyways.

It's more than that, I'm afraid. Native American nations are technically "dependent sovreign nations", aka not states and not part of the federal government. They are their own little countries whose relationship with the Fed and states is governed by the Constitution and the specific treaty the Indian nation is recognized by.

So establishing something similar within the bounds of an existing state is unconstitutional on at least three different levels.

 

[drainbamage]

Neither are relevant are they? Can you find me a link saying the US federal government has some form of treaty that is still in effect with a Hawaiian tribe?

you don't think historical dealings on treaties between indigenous cultures and the USA govt would be relative :icon_neut

Ok, let's try this direction: do you assign validity to Perry-type treaties?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

LOL well played but Watch out the PC police will shoot you down.

I'm armed and dangerous too. :icon_evil

Difference being many want to preserve their culture through annihilation of other cultures.

lol. So provided the Klan does everything peacefully it's all good?

I clearly don't know the background on the bill, have no love for most republicrat ideas, but if this bill is designed to give some legal boosting to the ethnically indigenous population and allow them similar privileges as to continental "NA's"- I dont see the need for hysterics in discussing the idea. Its based on precident, is needed (unless you think of HI as a massive tourist resort of white New Englander culture as being a good and normal thing,) and could help undo some of the damages that were done at the hands of a centralized government.

Why is this "needed"? I do know that unlike the Amish I don't see Hawaiians eschewing that which is provided by modern society and American culture. It just seems like they want to exclude other people from some wealth and resources based on genetics/race.

I'm not sure what part of "culture" can't be maintained without special laws promoting segregation. Not even sure how much of it exists in the islands and how much of the way things are is already a combination of diverse cultures.

http://www.city-data.com/states/Hawaii-Ethnic-groups.html

Hawaii has the nation's highest percentage of Asian residents

 

[OldGoat]

you don't think historical dealings on treaties between indigenous cultures and the USA govt would be relative :icon_neut

Ok, let's try this direction: do you assign validity to Perry-type treaties?

You mean territory acquired by conquest? Or terms leveraged with a position of strength? Of course.

 

[OldGoat]

It's more than that, I'm afraid. Native American nations are technically "dependent sovreign nations", aka not states and not part of the federal government. They are their own little countries whose relationship with the Fed and states is governed by the Constitution and the specific treaty the Indian nation is recognized by.

So establishing something similar within the bounds of an existing state is unconstitutional on at least three different levels.

Won't stop this government.

 

[Jaden Korr**]

Because they are all currently American citizens and not citizens of some tribe that has treaties with the USA. As far as I know. This would be the most screwed up idea our president has if true. The precedent would be very dumb and damaging.

This would not even be in the top 10

 

[OldGoat]

This would not even be in the top 10

Lol. I stand corrected. Never let it be said that OldGoat doesn't admit being wrong.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Lol. I stand corrected. Never let it be said that OldGoat doesn't admit being wrong.

I don't know. Which Presidents have relinquished American land or allowed US citizens to form a government separate from the federal or state governments? Now throw in that it's delineated by race. I'd put this high on the list. Up there with targeted killing of citizens.

But hey, if we all have the option to secede or to renegotiate terms with our state and federal governments then I'm listening. I'm sure the Northern Coloradans who wanted to form their own state last year will be amenable to notions of self-determination when it comes to governance. Same with Texas.