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Not Just a Cohencidence (Mueller/Investigation Thread v.20)

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I'm not sure what your standard is. It's unlikely that a jury would agree with you, given the Edwards precedent. If you don't care about precedent, you're of course free to interpret the laws any way you want. In the court of popular opinion, you're fighting a losing battle. Most non-partisans are not going to be convinced that paying hush money to a mistress is a serious crime.
The crime is breaking election laws. Also, that case was different, with different facts, as well laid out by @PolishHeadlock. It certainly doesn't set precedent for this case which has too many substantial differences to be directly comparable. You've also failed to still respond to my earlier statement in any substantial way.

Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to crimes. He implicated President Trump under oath as having directed the felony actions. Trump is the individual who benefitted from the crime. He certainly has culpability. Whether he is held to task is another matter, because the Republican congress has completely abdicated their constitutional duties.
 
This is the key to your argument. Probing motivations based on timing. If Trump tried the "didn't want Melania to know" defense, what would be your response?



I have to laugh at this. The jury certainly didn't think so. What did they miss?

Cohen claims it was to influence the campaign and plead guilty. No witnesses made the claims against Edwards.

Also Edward's mistress started getting paid in 2006 while Trump's payments were made a couple of months before the election.

It's a much stronger case.
 
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The crime is breaking election laws.

You think a law was violated. I don't. It's a matter of opinion at this point and will remain so since Trump isn't going to be indicted.


Also, that case was different, with different facts, as well laid out by @PolishHeadlock.

I'm guessing you didn't read his article. The only significant difference was that Edwards used the "hiding it from his wife" excuse.


It certainly doesn't set precedent for this case which has too many substantial differences to be directly comparable.

Really? Name a couple differences of substance.

You've also failed to still respond to my earlier statement in any substantial way.

I think I responded quite well. If you'd like to try again, I will also try again.

Trump is the individual who benefitted from the crime.
That's an alleged crime. No jury convicted Cohen of a crime. He signed a plea agreement to avoid spending decades in jail on tax charges.

[Trump] certainly has culpability.
That's a matter of opinion. I doubt you're correct.
 
*slaps roof of thread*
"this bad boy right here is pure uncut war room."
 
You think a law was violated. I don't. It's a matter of opinion at this point and will remain so since Trump isn't going to be indicted.




I'm guessing you didn't read his article. The only significant difference was that Edwards used the "hiding it from his wife" excuse.




Really? Name a couple differences of substance.



I think I responded quite well. If you'd like to try again, I will also try again.


That's an alleged crime. No jury convicted Cohen of a crime. He signed a plea agreement to avoid spending decades in jail on tax charges.


That's a matter of opinion. I doubt you're correct.

The people that paid off the woman for Edwards said it was to hide it from his wife. Edwards' campaign for Presidency was several years after the payments started. The person that paid off the whores for Trump said it was to help his campaign. The payments for Trump to the whores were in the same year as his bid for Presidency despite the affairs being years earlier.

These are significant differences as the former head of the FEC that you pointed out earlier said the FEC campaign finance laws were designed so that the payments of these nature would have to be directly for the benefit of the campaign and no other reason. Edwards' reasoning was to hide it from his cancer-stricken wife. Cohen is saying these payments were directly to help Trump's campaign.
 
Cohen has already pleaded guilty to the crimes he committed. You can pretend whatever you want, but it's a done deal.

A plea agreement is not the same as a verdict. You should know better.
 
A plea agreement is not the same as a verdict. You should know better.
Michael Cohen admits he committed said crimes, and will now be punished for it. I'm not confused on a verdict v. a guilty plea. You're confused about what a crime is, apparently.

Committing murder is a crime, even if you plead guilty to it, instead of being found guilty by a jury.

Your semantics and sophistry are boring. Better go watch some more Derschowitz so you have some new bullshit to spew.
 
Edwards' campaign for Presidency was several years after the payments started.

This is false. Edwards declared his candidacy in December 2006. He started working with Hunter after that. He paid her throughout the course of the campaign.
 

So is the principle that in ordinary conversation, we need proof of guilt before we comment on it? I think we need good evidence, but there is rightly a different standard for criminal convictions.

Yes. It's a normal, day-to-day part of life. I'm sure you're aware of US attempts to influence political outcomes in other countries. That's not an endorsement, but an acknowledgement of reality.

Yes, I've heard this pathetic defense before. If North Korea dropped an atomic bomb on us, I'm sure you'd just say, "oh well, we dropped two on Japan so we shouldn't criticize," right?

No. My view is that it's going to happen and the best response is to secure your systems.

And Americans who aid the attack are inevitable. "Oh well, it is human nature to commit some crimes. We should just try to protect ourselves and not hold it against the criminals."

Trump already imposed those sanctions, and I never wrote in opposition to them. So please stop the dishonesty.

"Trump imposed those sanctions." LOL. You're just trolling now.

My view of impeachment is that it requires an actual crime. So far Trump has not been found guilty of a crime. This is a deeper consitutional issue that I don't think you want to delve into.

But you also don't think he can be tried for a crime, right? So how can he be found guilty? Combining your positions on this issue, you're saying that impeachment is impossible.

My understanding of the founding is that the framers intended impeachment/removal to be a stand-in for prosecution. The idea was that the populace (through their representatives) should make that determination and not merely a jury or judge.

So why is it not appropriate now?

I don't think the act of paying off a mistress is morally reprehensible. I don't like it when men sleep around on their wives, but that's a different topic.

You were just attacking Strok's morality on the exact grounds. This is just blatant tribalism.

Jack, you know full well that the offering of a bet is not an "expression of certainty". It's an expression of confidence. You expressed confidence on the opposite side of the bet, but then you ran. Why is that?

I didn't run. I'm just anticipating a difficult adjudication process. I offered you a chance to clarify. Where on Earth does your confidence come from here if not tribalism?

I like Trump's dedication to strengthening the porous southern border, nominating textualist-originalists to the federal judiciary, and his being wary of sending troops overseas. I don't like Trump on military spending and belligerence toward Russia. I feel Pence would not be as effective on the southern border.

I'll ignore the blatant trolling with the Russia stuff. What's the evidence that Trump has been effective on the Southern border? And is Trump really the only the guy who can do what he's doing? I don't see why you can't find a non-corrupt champion of your views.

Lol, Jack is just making up insults now.

For some people in this world, the less attention you give them, the more they desperately desire it.

I live rent free in someone's head.

Weird thing to say from someone who mentions me constantly while lacking the confidence to defend his own points against counter arguments I make. And I'm not making it up. You want me to dredge up the quote? You've made it perfectly clear that you consider politics to be a war and that things like personal decency and integrity are for suckers. You've also described the abuse at the hands of your father on multiple occasions.
 
You say that like you've never witnessed tentacle porn.
I've never witnessed tentacle porn. Should I?

Didn't that guy also have some kind of nervous breakdown at one point?
 
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I've never witnessed tentacle porn. Should I?

Didn't that guy also lie have some kind of nervous breakdown at one point?

<YeahOKJen>

You can't fool me.

I know you Trump supporters are all weaboo dorks.
 
Did you just post a tweet from the guy who was busted for watching tentacle porn?


This coming from the guy who hangs from the ball sack of a president who uses campaign contributions as hush money to pay off hookers that he cheats on his wife with while she is home pregnant.

And has committed infidelity in every marriage he’s ever been in.

Keep up the good fight you paid agitator
 
Michael Cohen admits he committed said crimes, and will now be punished for it.
...as part of a plea agreement to save himself from doing decades in prison. Cohen has an overwhelming incentive to lie, and SDNY wants Cohen to offer dirt on Trump. The fact that you don't even question the arrangement suggests anti-Trump tribalism on your part.

I'm not confused on a verdict v. a guilty plea.

Edit: No jury found Cohen found guilty of a crime. He pleaded guilty to save his own ass.
 
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