Nitric Oxide

Newbs24 said:
Stack Controlled Labs Green Bulge (CEE) with Controlled Labs White Blood (NO) and you will be very surprised. Seriously stay away from BSN products. Overpriced and Controlled Labs may be one of the top companies for supplements out in relation to how great they work.
Thats funny...I was actually thinking about doing that. I was looking up other CEE and NO2's today and saw those two and was wandering how good they were together. I havent had a problem with BSN's shit and its been cheaper then most.
 
Newbs24 said:
Stack Controlled Labs Green Bulge (CEE) with Controlled Labs White Blood (NO) and you will be very surprised. Seriously stay away from BSN products. Overpriced and Controlled Labs may be one of the top companies for supplements out in relation to how great they work.


bsn's nitrix isnt that expensive. how much is the controlled labs stuff?
 
Tkdmmafighter said:
bsn's nitrix isnt that expensive. how much is the controlled labs stuff?
I go through BB.com because I always get free stuff no matter how much I spend, but they have it as a special for 49.99 for the stack. It should last a month or maybe longer but i would take it everyday. It has 30 servings to be simple. But seriously check it out. I took NO-Xplode and Cell Mass for a stack early in the summer but the Blood/Bulge stack blew it away. Also Blood/Omega Thunder will work the same but cost more.
 
I started using NoXplode about three weeks ago. In that time, I've added 75 lbs to my max bench press. Strange thing is, I haven't noticed much in the way of cosmetic improvement, just strength.
 
Make that 100 lbs. Damn. Is that even close to normal to increase your bench press 100 lbs in one month from NoXplode? That doesn't even seem feasible.
 
finnegan said:
Make that 100 lbs. Damn. Is that even close to normal to increase your bench press 100 lbs in one month from NoXplode? That doesn't even seem feasible.
Yea it doesnt but if its working, then it must be. I havent maxed since ive been on Nitrix. I really dont max ever to be honest. Ill tell ya how much mine went up in 2 weeks. Ill max sometime this week.
 
ive been taken testorone booster but im think to switching to nitrix

whats the best name brand?
 
Right now the discussion is over controlled labs or BSN's NOxplode or Nitrix. Choose one. Im on nitrix, like it.
 
Ok, since nobody answered my question, which was the second post, I will answer it myself. I asked a professor this question and he gave me a quick answer and said he plans on looking into it to get a better answer, but this is what he said off the top of his head.

Interesting questions - why don't you do a self-experiment?

I'd like to look into some of these things a little bit, because now I
have some questions. What I can tell you now is that viagra is involved
with NO-mediated vasodiation. It doesn't directly affect NO, but rather
prevents the breakdown of cGMP, a secondary messenger of NO that causes
smooth muscle relaxation - allowing for sustained vascular vasodilation.
Also, you are right that viagra will act throughout the body and not just
in certain "parts".

The questions I have concern how important NO-mediated vasodilation is
during (and after) resistance training - if the contribution is small,
then I wouldn't expect much benefit from viagra, if the contribution is
large, then there may be some effects. Also, since cardiac output isn't
maxed with resistance training, there really shouldn't be a limitation on
muscle blood flow under normal circumstances (i.e., if it was beneficial
to increase blood flow to the muscle to remove metabolites, the heart
would be able to provide that blood). I'd like to look into these issues
and get back to you.

Anyway, sounds like a good topic for a dissertation!

Now, there are two parts to this answer. First one is the first paragraph for those of you who are interested in how viagra works and a bit about Nitrious Oxide. The second part is of interest to those taking NO2. The assumption is NO2 works, and the validity of increase vasodialation is under scrutiny.

Specifically this sentence: "Also, since cardiac output isn't maxed with resistance training, there really shouldn't be a limitation on muscle blood flow under normal circumstances (i.e., if it was beneficial
to increase blood flow to the muscle to remove metabolites, the heart would be able to provide that blood)."

Now all you science haters this is an opinion and I think makes a good point; this isn't research from a hated science article. The heart is not totally maxed out during and after resistance training, so an increase of blood flow is possible. If it was that benificial, why wouldn't the body do it anyway? It is very benificial to have increased blood flow and cardiac output immediately after exercise and that alread does happen (it takes a while for your heart rate and blood flow to go down anyway, EPOC).

I"m not saying it doesn't work, I have no clue; but I am very curious. One of the claims for extra workouts is they increase blood flow which helps recovery. This is true for all active recovery, which has a HUGE following in heavy lifters. So maybe that increase does help. Anybody have any opinions or information?
 
Hey Rjkd...Im not being a smartass but do you take any NO product?
 
Nope, I actually have some NO2 at my place though so I plan to try it eventually. I do think it is a bit irrelevant to the topic though, in the example I stated I said assuming it does increase NO, does that translate into gains/recovery? Additionally I am not saying they don't work, I would just like to have a little bit of a discussion and hear other peoples opinions on the topic.
 
Not lately. I used to take a bunch (when I worked at GNC) but found out I was spending as much time timing my food/supp intake as working out. Stopped taking most supps and put more effort into my workout and eating clean overall and I made beter gains.

But now, I just started a program in school and have been hitting the books REAL hard, so training has taken a back seat. I try to box/grapple every now and then but its not too often.

I guess I enjoy reading/learning a lot about drugs and supplements and how the interract with the body moreso than taking them haha.
 
That's a tough post to argue with, RJKD.
 
Alright everyone, pull out your human biochemistry textbook and follow along! In other words, if you hate opinions that are largely derived from scientific literature, just skip this post. You'll just end up flaming me, and I'm too delicate to handle that. *smirk*

The main premise behind using NO-stimulators is based upon boosting blood-arginine levels (from either L-arginine or arginine-alpha-ketoglutarate) which will, in turn, boost blood-NO levels. Considering ARG is a substrate for NO, this is somewhat plausible. NO will then, supposedly, act as a vasodilator, increasing blood flow and nutrient delivery to muscle cells. Reasonable, right?

Unfortunately, there is simply too much evidence to go against this idea. It can actually be refuted in a single statement: The concentration of baseline arginine that exists in the bloodstream is far, far greater than the maximum amount that can converted into nitric oxide. Rather, human biochemical response dictates that instead of converting ARG to NO until equilibrium is reached, a catalyst is required in order to signal this reaction to take place. In other words, we have a huge bank of serum arginine in circulation; boosting NO levels results from signaling the ARG --> NO reaction to take place. Boosting blood-ARG levels is futile, as we have plenty of that substrate without additional supplementation.

However, when you examine the destiny of ARG in the body, you see that ARG is a potent insulin secretagogue. Likewise, insulin is a potent promoter of temporary NO conversion, and thus a vasodilator. So... the insulin response associated with ARG-based products is what causes the NO boost, not the actual ARG substrate. In fact, a study conducted at Penn State showed that blocking receptors on the pancreas (and hence, stifling insulin secretion) reduced NO increases by about 80% following ARG supplementation. A subsequent study from 1999 demonstrated that glycogen replenishment in a semi-fasted, post-workout scenario was accomplished 3x faster with a whole-protein/carbohydrate combination than with an ARG/carbohydrate combination.

Beyond this, it is well known that amino uptake is somewhat ineffecient in administration of single amino acids. Amino acids seem to rely on the prescence of others for effective uptake. The free amino acid pool generally operates with a degree of homeostasis. Ingesting megadoses of a single amino acid will shatter this equilibrium, thus forcing expulsion. It is far more effective to raise insulin levels with a combination of carbohydrates and whole-protein than by carbohydrates and a single amino.

So, by this evidence, NO-boosting supplements are somewhat effective, even though they work by a mechanism other than what is claimed. There is much more effectiveness (particularly, cost effectiveness) in implementing a solid post-workout carb/protein combination. NO-boosting agents simply work by manipulating insulin flux. This can be done, quite easily, by dietary methods. By this standard, I find it simply foolish to invest so much money into an inefficient secretagogue. It is comparable to using a saline IV as a hydration source. Sure, it works, but there is a much easier, cheaper way to get water. So yes, it works, but very, very inefficiently.
 
Terumo said:
Alright everyone, pull out your human biochemistry textbook and follow along! In other words, if you hate opinions that are largely derived from scientific literature, just skip this post. You'll just end up flaming me, and I'm too delicate to handle that. *smirk*

Sure, it works, but there is a much easier, cheaper way to get water. So yes, it works, but very, very inefficiently.
Sorry man. but I put 100 lbs on my bench press in one month.
100...ONE HUNDRED....POUNDS! in 1, as in a single, month. That month also happened to be month I cycled onto NO. I'm not shitting you here. I don't give a flying fuck what anyone says. If that was a placebo effect, then I'll placebo myself invisible, right after I placebo myself a millionaire and placebo myself beneath a pile of redheads that lactate Guinness from one breast and Muscle Milk from the other.
 
finnegan said:
Sorry man. but I put 100 lbs on my bench press in one month.
100...ONE HUNDRED....POUNDS! in 1, as in a single, month. That month also happened to be month I cycled onto NO. I'm not shitting you here. I don't give a flying fuck what anyone says. If that was a placebo effect, then I'll placebo myself invisible, right after I placebo myself a millionaire and placebo myself beneath a pile of redheads that lactate Guinness from one breast and Muscle Milk from the other.

You are arguing something that I did not claim. Please read more of my post than the first and last sentences before quoting me and arguing something that is irrelevant.
 
Terumo said:
You are arguing something that I did not claim. Please read more of my post than the first and last sentences before quoting me and arguing something that is irrelevant.
I read the post, and I must admit I should have read it more carefully. My argument (although admittingly I didn't go into the proper detail and for that I apologize) is that I followed a combination of carbs/ protein post workout before cycling onto NO, and I did improve over that time. However, when I added NO to the mix, I improved a whole lot really fast. I didn't replace protein with NO, I added it in.
The protein I used was either Optimum Nutrition or Muscle Milk (post workout) Carbs were from fruit.
Previous 10 week cycle: no NO2 supplementation, lots of protein, lots of carbs = a steady gain in strength and size.
weeks 1-5 Fizogen Mass Cycle/ NOS offbrand (not much in the way of strength gain, but gppd cosmetic improvement)
weeks 6-10 NoXplode (massive strength/ energy gain; some cosmetic improvement)

Comparing these two different cycles, I have a problem with NoXplode being labeled as overpriced and inefficient, as it certainly wasn't for me. I gained about a pound on my press for every dollar I spent. That is pretty efficient to me.
 
Terumo said:
Alright everyone, pull out your human biochemistry textbook and follow along! In other words, if you hate opinions that are largely derived from scientific literature, just skip this post. You'll just end up flaming me, and I'm too delicate to handle that. *smirk*

The main premise behind using NO-stimulators is based upon boosting blood-arginine levels (from either L-arginine or arginine-alpha-ketoglutarate) which will, in turn, boost blood-NO levels. Considering ARG is a substrate for NO, this is somewhat plausible. NO will then, supposedly, act as a vasodilator, increasing blood flow and nutrient delivery to muscle cells. Reasonable, right?

Unfortunately, there is simply too much evidence to go against this idea. It can actually be refuted in a single statement: The concentration of baseline arginine that exists in the bloodstream is far, far greater than the maximum amount that can converted into nitric oxide. Rather, human biochemical response dictates that instead of converting ARG to NO until equilibrium is reached, a catalyst is required in order to signal this reaction to take place. In other words, we have a huge bank of serum arginine in circulation; boosting NO levels results from signaling the ARG --> NO reaction to take place. Boosting blood-ARG levels is futile, as we have plenty of that substrate without additional supplementation.

However, when you examine the destiny of ARG in the body, you see that ARG is a potent insulin secretagogue. Likewise, insulin is a potent promoter of temporary NO conversion, and thus a vasodilator. So... the insulin response associated with ARG-based products is what causes the NO boost, not the actual ARG substrate. In fact, a study conducted at Penn State showed that blocking receptors on the pancreas (and hence, stifling insulin secretion) reduced NO increases by about 80% following ARG supplementation. A subsequent study from 1999 demonstrated that glycogen replenishment in a semi-fasted, post-workout scenario was accomplished 3x faster with a whole-protein/carbohydrate combination than with an ARG/carbohydrate combination.

Beyond this, it is well known that amino uptake is somewhat ineffecient in administration of single amino acids. Amino acids seem to rely on the prescence of others for effective uptake. The free amino acid pool generally operates with a degree of homeostasis. Ingesting megadoses of a single amino acid will shatter this equilibrium, thus forcing expulsion. It is far more effective to raise insulin levels with a combination of carbohydrates and whole-protein than by carbohydrates and a single amino.

So, by this evidence, NO-boosting supplements are somewhat effective, even though they work by a mechanism other than what is claimed. There is much more effectiveness (particularly, cost effectiveness) in implementing a solid post-workout carb/protein combination. NO-boosting agents simply work by manipulating insulin flux. This can be done, quite easily, by dietary methods. By this standard, I find it simply foolish to invest so much money into an inefficient secretagogue. It is comparable to using a saline IV as a hydration source. Sure, it works, but there is a much easier, cheaper way to get water. So yes, it works, but very, very inefficiently.

Man, I guess it's odd this post should get me so depressed, considering it's going to save me money.
 
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