New The SHiNiNG interpretation

[fightingrabbit]

Stanely Kubrick himself explained the significance of the photo. He said it is intended as supernatural i.e. that is indeed Jack in the picture and he was indeed the caretaker at that time. Too lazy to find where I saw that but you can google it.

I don't get that part. So how was he the caretaker back then, when he was alive and had a family in the present?

 

[chokeyou]

I don't get that part. So how was he the caretaker back then, when he was alive and had a family in the present?

I think reincarnation is the correct answer. The hotel brought him back or what not.

 

[chokeyou]

Ok so I misremembered exactly what Kubrick had said, but the reincarnation part is correct. Here's what Kubrick had to say (See below), I don't agree with IMDB's interpretation of what he meant. I think Jack is the reincarnation of himself i.e. the dude that killed his family all those years ago. Why would he be the reincarnation of a random hotel guest? Kubrick says the photo suggests "the reincarnation of Jack," yet according to IMDB the guy in the photo is "not jack?" That makes no sense.

What's the significance of the photograph at the end of the film?

Probably the single most frequently asked question in relation to this film is what does the final shot mean; how and why is Jack in a photograph from 1921? In a film with so much irreconcilable ambiguity, this one shot has generated more puzzlement than the entire rest of the movie, yet it is one part of the film on which Stanley Kubrick has been extremely clear about his intentions. As he told Michel Ciment, "The ballroom photograph at the end suggests the reincarnation of Jack" (quoted here). So, Jack is reincarnated. But what exactly does that mean? Perhaps the simplest explanation for this is that Jack is the reincarnation of a prior hotel guest; the person in the photo is not Jack, but a guest who was present in 1921. Jack is the reincarnation of this guest. This would seem to support Gordon Dahlquist's argument that Delbert Grady and Charles Grady are different people (mentioned above); if we follow the argument through, it would suggest that Charles Grady (the caretaker who killed his family) was the reincarnation of Delbert Grady (the butler in the 1920s). Similarly, Jack (the caretaker who attempts to kill his family) is the reincarnation of the unnamed man in the photograph (the caretaker in the 1920s). This argument would also seem to support Grady's claim to Jack that he has "always" been the caretaker; if Jack is the reincarnation of the caretaker from the 1920s, it would suggest that the hotel continuously 'reanimates' its 1921 guests, bringing them back in different guises; hence, just as Delbert was brought back as Charles, so too is the man in the photo brought back as Jack, in a process which, it would seem, is ongoing. As such, when Grady comments that both he and Jack have always been at the hotel, he is correct; they will forever be brought back to the hotel as reincarnations, hence they are 'always' there.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081505/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm#.2.1.69

 

[Lamentation]

Ok so I misremembered exactly what Kubrick had said, but the reincarnation part is correct. Here's what Kubrick had to say (See below), I don't agree with IMDB's interpretation of what he meant. I think Jack is the reincarnation of himself i.e. the dude that killed his family all those years ago. Why would he be the reincarnation of a random hotel guest? Kubrick says the photo suggests "the reincarnation of Jack," yet according to IMDB the guy in the photo is "not jack?" That makes no sense.



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081505/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm#.2.1.69

i always thought that meant jack as reincarnated. i would also say this this is history/evil repeats itself

 

[the ambush]

May take some heat for this. So this thread motivated me to watch The Shining, again. As a kid I remember being terrified and creeped out, now I just appreciate it for the great film it is. The atmosphere and style is as near perfect as you can get.

 

[xenomorph4prez]

May take some heat for this. So this thread motivated me to watch The Shining, again. As a kid I remember being terrified and creeped out, now I just appreciate it for the great film it is. The atmosphere and style is as near perfect as you can get.

I think it goes both ways for me. While I don't find it terrifying there is something about it that is deeply unsettling perhaps even at a primal level.

I watched it the first time maybe in middle school and wasn't blown away as I was expecting from it's reputation to be wall to wall jump scares and gore. At that time I think I was too young to appreciate the atmosphere and auteurism of the film.

The first time I revisited the film maybe a year ago after not seeing it in a decade or more, was pretty unsettling from the get go. During the opening scene of the helicopter shot following Jack with "Dies Irae" (Day of Wrath) playing filled me with anxiety and I started feeling a little queasy and almost baled on it. The only reason I didn't is I was watching with my gf, otherwise I don't think I would've gotten past the opening scene.

I am a horror junkie and I have never experienced that kind of symptom from a movie, ever.

I mean fuck, that was the opening scene and it could have easily been a Volkswagen ad lol.

Kubrick is a GOAT for that reason alone imo.

Is there anyone whose fight or flight receptors were not at least tickled at a subconscious level by this scene?

 

[xenomorph4prez]

I have made a few more connections that could hint to Dante's Inferno as a thematic element for The SHiNiNG. The opening of the movie is Jack traveling along the mountainside towards The Overlook (Inferno/Hell) while "Dies Irae" (Day of Wrath) is playing. "Dies Irae" (Day of Wrath) is about Judgment Day when everyone get's what's coming to them based off of their deeds and the way they chose to live their lives. This applies because Inferno is punishment for those who commit evil deeds and Jack's punishment landed him in the 9th circle.

Another connection is this excerpt from Wikipedia's Dante's Inferno page.

The poem starts on Maundy Thursday in the year 1300. The narrator, Dante himself, is thirty-five years old, and thus "halfway along our life's path" (Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita)

 

[wlu29]

i like the apollo 11 conspiracy theory

 

[xenomorph4prez]

Not that this is likely to happen but it looks like if anyone searches dante's inferno and the shining they will get a result...to my interpretation.

I posted my theory in a movie specific forum on the site mentioned in the link. Since it didn't seem to be getting traffic I decided to put it on sherdog and take my beating like a man, and I must say that you guys weren't too bad.

http://www.dreamviews.com/entertainment/153677-dantes-inferno-symbolism-shining.html

 

[xenomorph4prez]

This ties together some Dante's Inferno, Doctor Faustus, and The SHiNiNG themes. Pretty much a hodge podge of things I've read lately that can be linked if you choose to of course.



While reading articles on The SHiNiNG to make more connections to Dante's Inferno I have come upon some very interesting points of interest.

One of the perplexities of Kubrick's The SHiNiNG is whether or not Jack was drinking real alcohol and was actually drunk or if the drinks given by Lloyd the bartender were a part of the hallucinations(insanity) Jack experiences as his mental state erodes throughout the film.

We know The Overlook contains no alcohol as it was removed when the hotel is in the closed season. Some explanations I have see as to how Jack could have possibly gotten alcohol is that he snuck some in or that he found a stash a guest or employee could have hidden.

These are possibilities but are not quite as fun as the possibilities the article I have just read could represent.

This article details similarities between the Jack Torrance of Stephen King's novel The Shining and that of Dr. Faustus. The details surrounding the alcoholic beverages Jack consumes can also be applied to the film version of Jack.

http://www.shmoop.com/shining-stephen-king/jack-torrance.html

The information most important is below

The martinis and other alcoholic beverages that magically appear at the Overlook might also have some roots in Goethe's Faust. In a rather early passage, Mephistopheles demonstrates his ability to create alcohol. We hope you enjoy his invocation as much as we do:

MEPHISTOPHELES – (with singular gestures)
Grapes the vine-stem bears,
Horns the he-goat wears!
The grapes are juicy, the vines are wood,
The wooden table gives wine as good !
Into the depths of Nature peer, —
Only believe, there 's a miracle here !
Now draw the stoppers, and drink your fill !

ALL – (as they draw out the stoppers, and the wine which has beendesired flows into the glass of each). О beautiful fountain, that flows at will !

When Jack enters the empty Gold Room and sits down at the dry bar he says "God I would do anything for a drink" . . . "I'd give my goddamned soul for just a glass of beer." After Jack mutters these lines he looks up to find Lloyd with a fully stocked bar behind him.

This is where things can get murky depending on what theory you believe in in regards to what is actually going on in the main plot of the film and other possible thematic elements.

1. Jack is nuts and imagines Lloyd and the alcohol
2. Jack is nuts and snuck alcohol into the Overlook or found someone's stash.
3. The Overlook is hell and the Devil is it's manager and Jack just verbally sold his soul for alcohol.

Here is another conclusion I came to after reading in the article mentioned above that informs us that Mephistopheles(the Devil) has the ability to create alcohol. If Lloyd is a "spirit" representing Jack's wantonness for alcohol(which is harmful because he is an alcoholic in recovery) and also Jack's reflection in the mirror then couldn't that mean Jack conjured the alcohol for himself unknowingly, which could be interpreted as Jack being the Devil.

This theory isn't new as people have found possible clues to Jack being linked to the Devil as the pictures below illustrate.

The images in these pictures can be argued to confirm Jack's true identity especially when we consider how they apply to the scene in which the photos of Jack's hand gestures are taken. The scene acts as a brief but effective retelling of the Devil challenging God for his throne. Jack ascending the stairs to a haloed Wendy seems to depict the Devil ascending to take God's throne and in both cases the attempted throne usurper is soundly defeated and locked away in the pit(storage pantry).

When we put all this together with the line Jack says about having a sense of deja vu, hinting at being in the Overlook (Inferno/hell) before without recollection of it interesting things happen.

This guy has always bothered me. I've often wondered who he is. I've seen theories that his head trauma is a reference to Wendy cracking Jack over the head with a bat and the Overlook uses her fears against her at a subconscious level. But what if this guy is a cheeky reference to Jack (The Devil) having amnesia from a blow to the head suffered from the fall to Earth after being cast out of Heaven.

When the Devil was defeated he was cast down to Earth where he would remain until judgment day where he would again be defeated and thrown into the pit (Overlook/Inferno 9th circle/Hell). When we take into context the playing of "Dies Irae" or Day of Judgment with Jack(the Devil) headed toward the Overlook(Inferno/hell) we see potential evidence that "The SHiNiNG" has a secondary narrative of the fall and final Judgment of the Devil ending with his imprisonment in the Overlook(9th circle/Hell).

So in one narrative we have Jack taking a job at the Overlook and due to the isolation of the Hotel loses his mind and is ultimately lured into a trap in the form of the hedge maze by Danny.

In a possible 2nd narrative we have Jack(the Devil, but doesn't know he is the Devil) lured to the Overlook (Inferno) and ultimately lured to his demise in the Overlook's hedge maze and photo(Inferno) as his ultimate punishment earned on "Dies Irae" Day of Wrath or Judgement Day.

The more I think about it I wonder if Dante acts as an unknowing double for the Devil in Dante's Inferno as Jack is possibly an unknowing double of the Devil in The SHiNiNG. The reason I say this is that the 3 animals that block Dante's path on the road of Salvation are said to represent Fraud, Greed, and Pride. These are the same sinful qualities that Satan possessed that eventually caused his downfall.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

The Shining is about whatever you want.

 

[xenomorph4prez]

The Shining is about whatever you want.

I agree. It's multiple films in one film. The best way of describing it I've seen is the Urban Dictionary definition for meta.

1.meta

A term, especially in art, used to characterize something that is characteristically self-referential.



"So I just saw this film about these people making a movie, and the movie they were making was about the film industry..."
"Dude, that's so meta. Stop before my brain explodes."

:icon_lol:

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

The photo in the end to me shows that Jack was the caretaker when the original incident went down and he's been reincarnated and was drawn back doomed to repeat the cycle. Eventually, there would be another Jack that would come along and do the same.

It kind of reminds me of Link and Zelda in The Legend of Zelda video games. There will always be a Link and Zelda that will come along and save the world and the cycle will repeat.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Slightly off topic, rumor has it Kubrick shot the scene in the kitchen with Halloran and Danny 88 times.

 

[xenomorph4prez]

The photo in the end to me shows that Jack was the caretaker when the original incident went down and he's been reincarnated and was drawn back doomed to repeat the cycle. Eventually, there would be another Jack that would come along and do the same.

It kind of reminds me of Link and Zelda in The Legend of Zelda video games. There will always be a Link and Zelda that will come along and save the world and the cycle will repeat.

I don't disagree. That is as valid an interpretation as any I've seen.

 

[minute bull]

I like the interpretation a lot. It makes a lot of sense THE SHINING is an indirect update to INFERNO -- and that this is hell and Jack's been trapped inside this entire time, just stomping through again and again (a la

Spoiler

THE GUNSLINGER series, as well as THE MATRIX and more inconspicuously LOOPER

).

What I wonder, for you fans out there, is whether the allusions and imagery add or detract from the overall viewing experience and appreciation of Kubrick's ability as a visionary director. Does the analogy heighten interpretation, or does is disappoint like peeking behind the Wizard's curtain?

 

[xenomorph4prez]

I like the interpretation a lot. It makes a lot of sense THE SHINING is an indirect update to INFERNO -- and that this is hell and Jack's been trapped inside this entire time, just stomping through again and again (a la

Spoiler

THE GUNSLINGER series, as well as THE MATRIX and more inconspicuously LOOPER

).

What I wonder, for you fans out there, is whether the allusions and imagery add or detract from the overall viewing experience and appreciation of Kubrick's ability as a visionary director. Does the analogy heighten interpretation, or does is disappoint like peeking behind the Wizard's curtain?

I think a bit of both. Honestly If I hadn't seen ROOM 237 and been inspired to look into other analysis's and possible symbolism I can honestly say I would still consider The SHiNiNG to be a meager entry on Kubrick's resume. That's not to say I thought it was bad but in comparison to A Clockwork Orange, Lolita, and 2001 A Space Odyssey I thought it was lacking. Only after layers of the film were peeled back by analysis of others was I able to fully appreciate just how astonishingly complex the film is. I think I had a few good ideas but there are some insanely in-depth and thought provoking analysis's out there.

 

[theskza]

I like the interpretation a lot. It makes a lot of sense THE SHINING is an indirect update to INFERNO -- and that this is hell and Jack's been trapped inside this entire time, just stomping through again and again (a la

Spoiler

THE GUNSLINGER series, as well as THE MATRIX and more inconspicuously LOOPER

).

What I wonder, for you fans out there, is whether the allusions and imagery add or detract from the overall viewing experience and appreciation of Kubrick's ability as a visionary director. Does the analogy heighten interpretation, or does is disappoint like peeking behind the Wizard's curtain?

It will definitely add to the movie watching experience. I can't wait to see it again. My opinion of Kubrick might change afterwards, but for now it remains the same.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Definitely adds. The Sign of the Devil vs. Mother Mary picture is a pretty great addition to your theory, Xeno.

 

[xenomorph4prez]

Definitely adds. The Sign of the Devil vs. Mother Mary picture is a pretty great addition to your theory, Xeno.

Thanks, I've seen those images viewed by conspiracy theorists as illuminati symbols but I think it's just a subliminal story telling device.