New spirituality?

[PhantomNugget**]

I take offense to that.

Having grown up in a highly religious family, trust me when I say I've heard it all.

I've enjoyed my life so much ever since I let go of hocus pocus bullshit as a teen.

Let's not pretend that entertaining the idea of lakes of lava and bearded men in clouds is some kind of fashionable and brave notion. (im aware that people have a lot of.different beliefs like god as an energy or whatever)..

Enlightenment is one thing and if yoga helps you that's fine but stop trying to pass these weird beliefs as fact.

If you grew up in a religious family, then I suspect that at some point in your life you will have something happen to you that you cannot explain by science. Something that you cannot say is coincidence, and will be totally unexplainable by science alone. Wait and see.

It's all about being able to shift your perspective. It sounds to me like you are stuck in one perspective. Of course, you are entitled to your beliefs. And I'm not here to tell you that I'm right and you're wrong, so don't take it that way.


Atheists always want to make it "religion vs science." But it isn't. Religion and science are actually compatible, and in some cases they work well together.


Atheists believe that when you die, nothing happens. You cease being. And that there is no spiritual realm, no soul. I disagree with this point of view. Christians believe that when you die, your soul/essence carries on in another form. And there is actually MORE evidence (even if it is anecdotal) supporting this point of view.

Wasn't trying to offend you either, btw.

 

[J_C]

If these Things can't be measured, discovered, understood, or detected, what makes you so sure they're out there?

I am sure because of personal experience in intuition, moments of psychic connection with others, dream experience, meditative experiences and experiences with psychedelic drugs.

Also just as man has made discoveries of things we did not know existed in the past (atoms, bateria, cells, radio waves) he will continue to unravel the things we do not understand today.

 

[tkotom]

No offense taken dude. I just objected to the comment.

Well that's fair enough. I can't say that I've ever felt a higher power or anything like that though.

I'm interested to hear about evidence of an afterlife if I can use that word. I've never seen any.

 

[PhantomNugget**]

Garbage.

Science is the only way to interpret fact.

Plain and simple.

Dude, being overly scientific makes you like a robot.


Haven't you ever just "felt" something? Example, have you ever sparred with someone, and overthought every move you made? If you do that, you'll probably lose, right? And have you ever been sparring, and lightened up and just "flowed" and felt your way through it, without thinking? You probably sparred better by doing that, right?

It's KIND OF like that. lol it's hard to explain though. Hope you catch my drift though.

 

[AgeofEmpires2**]

And that's fine. If it makes you a better person and you treat others around you better as a result then all the power to you!

I read a lot of philosophy and gain perspecrive generally through a collation of beliefs from many different systems that benefit myself and others. Enlightenment.

For what it's worth I've always had my views since I was a child in that I was primarily agnostic since I can remember and I'm still that way. I've always like Vikings and their history though. So I understood a bit more of their history by practicing some of their old religious ways.

But as you said, which is the heart of MMA, take the best from everything. At this point in my life I feel I need to connect with nature as I have lived in crowded areas my entire life. Trees in the city streets looked like they're being held captive. It might be time for an adventure out in nature to discover more of this world and myself.

 

[J_C]

I never claimed otherwise. There are so many things that we cannot explain but we can explain a hell of s lot more than we could 100 years ago due to science.

Super natural beliefs have never led to discoveries that benefit humanity. At least directly.

Philosophy is a different matter and people shoildnt confuse that with religion.

Well religion obviously sucks, but kind of so called hocus pocus unproven activities of dreaming, intuition, meditation and the psychedelic experience I believe give glimpes to things yet fully understood or proven.

Also science ficition which starts out as super natural idea, has inspired people and often has lead to scientific acheivements

 

[PhantomNugget**]

Garbage.

Science is the only way to interpret fact.

Plain and simple.

I always use a quote from Contact when people say things like that. It sums it up nicely.

"Did you love your dad? Prove it."

 

[tkotom]

Well religion obviously sucks, but kind of so called hocus pocus unproven activities of dreaming, intuition, meditation and the psychedelic experience I believe give glimpes to things yet fully understood or proven.

I wouldn't go as far as putting psychedelic and dreaming on a hocus pocus level. The brain is a damn mystery but I wouldn't leave that up to something supernatural just yet..

 

[ThinkGreen]

Haven't you ever just "felt" something? Example, have you ever sparred with someone, and overthought every move you made? If you do that, you'll probably lose, right? And have you ever been sparring, and lightened up and just "flowed" and felt your way through it, without thinking? You probably sparred better by doing that, right?

It's KIND OF like that. lol it's hard to explain though. Hope you catch my drift though.

That's a terrible example. Just "flowing" like you are referring to is just using your muscle memory, which is your brain doing the work based on the repetitions that you have done previously. That's science, and can be easily proven.

 

[dissolved]

Garbage.

Science is the only way to interpret fact.

Plain and simple.

it seems to me you're being too rigid with your belief of what science is/represents. Science is made up of real people with bias, assumptions, trust-in-men/theories/philosophies too.

Religion relies heavily on human testimony. The scribing of the scriptures was extremely scrupulous done by people who had little selfish interest and who worked and died in obscurity/anonymity.

From your previous posts I know you know this. That said, because a discovery is recent, fresh, doesn't necessarily negate the knowledge and testimony of the ancients. Furthermore, science often breaks down the nuts and bolts of the here and now - the "how." Not so much the "why."

 

[PhantomNugget**]

That's a terrible example. Just "flowing" like you are referring to is just using your muscle memory, which is your brain doing the work based on the repetitions that you have done previously. That's science, and can be easily proven.

^this is what I'm talking about. You sound like a robot. Yes science can interpret it one way. You can also interpret it in many different ways. Reality is complex as fuck, bro. Saying it's "just using your muscle memory," or "so and so is JUST so and so...is really limiting your field of view. NOTHING is JUST anything. Everything is many different things. Make sense?



Although I agree that it wasn't the best example. It was just off the top of my head. But you completely missed the point, because you only looked at it from a science-minded viewpoint.

 

[tkotom]

it seems to me you're being too rigid with your belief of what science is/represents. Science is made up of real people with bias, assumptions, trust-in-men/theories/philosophies too.

Religion relies heavily on human testimony. The scribing of the scriptures was extremely scrupulous done by people who had little selfish interest and who worked and died in obscurity/anonymity.

From your previous posts I know you know this. That said, because a discovery is recent, fresh, doesn't necessarily negate the knowledge and testimony of the ancients. Furthermore, science often breaks down the nuts and bolts of the here and now - the "how." Not so much the "why."

I'll reply to ya when I get back mate. Funnily enough I have to go and take the rents to christmas mass lol. Gotta keep em happy.

 

[dissolved]

I'll reply to ya when I get back mate. Funnily enough I have to go and take the rents to christmas mass lol. Gotta keep em happy.

No worries, it's all good.

 

[ThinkGreen]

^this is what I'm talking about. You sound like a robot. Yes science can interpret it one way. You can also interpret it in many different ways. Reality is complex as fuck, bro. Saying it's "just using your muscle memory," or "so and so is JUST so and so...is really limiting your field of view. NOTHING is JUST anything. Everything is many different things. Make sense?

No.. that doesn't make sense. You are just being extremely vague because you don't really know what you're talking about. And I'm very open minded to other ideas and thoughts, but there has to be at least some logic or reasoning behind it. Responses like, "reality is complex as fuck, bro" do not sway me to take your beliefs seriously.

Although I agree that it wasn't the best example. It was just off the top of my head. But you completely missed the point, because you only looked at it from a science-minded viewpoint.

I didn't look at it from a science-minded viewpoint, I was just showing how your example is a poor one. I understand your point, but the example provided did not convey that point at all.

Furthermore, science often breaks down the nuts and bolts of the here and now - the "how." Not so much the "why."

That is not true at all. The whole point of science is to answer the "why" questions. It's the very first step in the scientific method, lol.

 

[PhantomNugget**]

Humans are not JUST analytical beings. We are not machines...we're just not made that way. But this is the technological age, and more and more people are thinking technologically. Like damn Vulcans from Star Trek.


Humans were made with emotions, feelings, for a reason. We are supposed to use them. And imo we should use them in equal measure to our analytical skills.


If you've never felt lead to do something, or gotten a bad feeling before doing something, or thought about someone from the distant past....only to have them call you later that day, then I don't know what to say to you.

 

[ThinkGreen]

Humans are not JUST analytical beings. We are not machines...we're just not made that way. But this is the technological age, and more and more people are thinking technologically. Like damn Vulcans from Star Trek.


Humans were made with emotions, feelings, for a reason. We are supposed to use them. And imo we should use them in equal measure to our analytical skills.


If you've never felt lead to do something, or gotten a bad feeling before doing something, or thought about someone from the distant past....only to have them call you later that day, then I don't know what to say to you.

Emotions, feelings, etc. are caused by your brain... you can learn about these things through science. Why are you acting as if they are separate subjects?

 

[PhantomNugget**]

No.. that doesn't make sense. You are just being extremely vague because you don't really know what you're talking about. And I'm very open minded to other ideas and thoughts, but there has to be at least some logic or reasoning behind it. Responses like, "reality is complex as fuck, bro" do not sway me to take your beliefs seriously.




I didn't look at it from a science-minded viewpoint, I was just showing how your example is a poor one. I understand your point, but the example provided did not convey that point at all.

No, YOU don't know what I'm talking about. I'm doing my best to explain it to you, but it's not the easiest concept to explain. You might say it's outside the box thinking. And you don't seem like the brightest bulb in the box.

I can't talk to you because you're already taking a defensive stance. I'm not attacking your views dude. Who am I to tell you that you're wrong? I can't prove that I'm right, and neither can you. I can only TRY to explain to you what has worked for me, after many years of deep thought on the subject, and after many years of life experience.

Believe me, I'm very logical. And I used to sound just like you do right now. But my experiences have changed me.

 

[ThinkGreen]

No, YOU don't know what I'm talking about. I'm doing my best to explain it to you, but it's not the easiest concept to explain. You might say it's outside the box thinking. And you don't seem like the brightest bulb in the box.

I can't talk to you because you're already taking a defensive stance. I'm not attacking your views dude. Who am I to tell you that you're wrong? I can't prove that I'm right, and neither can you. I can only TRY to explain to you what has worked for me, after many years of deep thought on the subject, and after many years of life experience.

Believe me, I'm very logical. And I used to sound just like you do right now. But my experiences have changed me.

Lol, ok. I must not be intelligent enough to understand your insight.

*bows out gracefully

 

[dissolved]

Psalm 19:7 - 11 is so truly key to the wisdom, the depth of the biblical text - God's word. Is it any wonder that the majority of MMA's top fighters thank God, acknowledging him for their success?

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever: the judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.

More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward."

 

[PhantomNugget**]

Emotions, feelings, etc. are caused by your brain... you can learn about these things through science. Why are you acting as if they are separate subjects?

Emotions, feelings, etc are caused by your brain. I'm assuming you mean the chemical reactions in your brain, right? Is that all there is to it? What if....those chemical reactions in your brain are only the SYMPTOMS of something else?

What influences the chemicals to do what they do? Well, among other things, thoughts do (yes, look it up, it's science). And what is a thought? NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS. But they can influence those chemicals in your brain. And what influences your thoughts? How about that little voice in your head? You know that voice, it whispers negative thoughts to you sometimes. It tells you things like "you're a loser, you're not good enough, you're weak." What is that voice? Who is that voice? Science calls it your ego. Religion calls it a demon. But they are BOTH talking about the SAME THING! Do you see where I'm going with this?


What myself and others are trying to say to you is that you are looking at the nuts and bolts of things. You are looking at things very closely, like through a microscope. Try backing up away from things. Look at the larger pictures. I mean the REALLY big picture. And try shifting your perspective some time. Look at things in different ways. Science stops being useful when applied to certain subjects.

It's an abstract concept, but I'm hoping you can see what I'm saying. Plus, I'm pretty tired.