New spirituality?

[dissolved]

Well I'm sold. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

I will concede that education level of a population (especially of women) does affect birth rates.

I agree . . . I'm not even suggesting that procreation is everything. But to me, it represents well-roundedness, balance. I can't imagine not wanting or taking the time for offspring. I'm sure some or a lot of that is to do with my religious roots - though I don't consider those influences bad, quite the opposite and in keeping with Darwinism or evolution . . . Survival of the fittest.

 

[seatea]

In not sure that any theory or idea is outright laughable. Christopher Columbus in his journal related the significance of the Biblical scripture that says "the circle of the globe[earth]" in concluding that the world was round (in harmony with other studies). The ruling authorities at that time thought the idea was laughable.

Wait, are you serious comparing your off-hand idea posted on an MMA forum to that of the earth being round as opposed to flat?

 

[dissolved]

I agree that no theory should ever be discarded, even if its only for historical study/comparison. And in sure there are ideas in the grey now which will gain acceptance in time, its how the cycle works.

This is more the approach that I have . . .

The evil I've seen first-hand leads me to believe in the spiritual realm almost as much or more than the good that I've seen first-hand.

 

[Honestnathaniel]

This is more the approach that I have . . .

The evil I've seen first-hand leads me to believe in the spiritual realm almost as much or more than the good that I've seen first-hand.

Care to elaborate on that a little?

 

[tkotom]

In not sure that any theory or idea is outright laughable. Christopher Columbus in his journal related the significance of the Biblical scripture that says "the circle of the globe[earth]" in concluding that the world was round (in harmony with other studies). The ruling authorities at that time thought the idea was laughable.

We know a lot more than Columbus.

And claims without evidence sir are laughable. Don't mean to be rude.

 

[Honestnathaniel]

We know a lot more than Columbus.

And claims without evidence sir are laughable. Don't mean to be rude.

Claims without evidence are questionable, but open for discussion nonetheless. Claims which have been disproven yet continue to be touted as truth are laughable. There is a distinction there in my opinion. And I realise that opinion leaves me open to " gremlins on rainbows" before you mention it.

 

[tkotom]

Claims without evidence are questionable, but open for discussion nonetheless. Claims which have been disproven yet continue to be touted as truth are laughable. There is a distinction there in my opinion. And I realise that opinion leaves me open to " gremlins on rainbows" before you mention it.

Well fair enough. But yes don't forgrt I could suggest something as ridiculous as gremlins on rainbows and you could never disprove it. Is it really up for discussion though?

 

[MARTIAN]

There is a set of beliefs and viewpoints which seem to be increasingly common in these times. Many of these ideas have been floating around the intellectual/religious underground for years but it seems that in this age of zeitgeist and information overload it has become much more acceptable to express them openly. Things like auras, chakras, spirit guides, shamanism, mediumship, various alternative healing methods, premonitions, channelling, kirilian photography, crystals etc.
There are many,many more im sure im forgetting here but you get the idea. So where do you stand on these or any others you can think of? Is your mind open to the idea of any of them? If so why? And if not, why not?

these two have no correlation

 

[Honestnathaniel]

Well fair enough. But yes don't forgrt I could suggest something as ridiculous as gremlins on rainbows and you could never disprove it. Is it really up for discussion though?

It is technically up for discussion yes, but at the same time no.

 

[Honestnathaniel]

these two have no correlation

They are meant to be separate, I just use slashes in my paragraphs cause im lazy.

 

[dissolved]

Care to elaborate on that a little?

I've done it in other threads . . . Do you really want me to? It's kind of long.

A demon-possessed woman - the story rises above the others (have encountered at least 3 others).

I was in seminary and it was a night-service at the college church. At the time, attendance was required. There were about 500 students sitting semi-zoned out in the audience. The speaker was a college professor and the sermon was on The Bible being the authoritative, actual words God. The topic IMO was very key to what followed.

The speaker had just started, when from the back of the church strolled a woman in spandex shorts, a tank-top and brown leather jacket to the front, standing maybe 4 feet away from the speaker behind the pulpit. He had just begun preaching, announcing the subject of the sermon and a few introductory comments. Immediately the woman began pacing back and forth in swaying agitation to what was being said. She then began to speak in a low growling voice, "you're lying." Over and over again to the professor. After about a minute, the speaker stopped his sermon and, appearing somewhat flustered/under attack, said to the woman, "excuse me miss, can I help you?" The woman kept pacing back and forth in front of the podium and speaking more loudly, saying, "you're lying!"

At this, the speaker motioned to ushers at the back of the church and to the senior pastor behind him on the stage that this wasn't a gimmick and to come forward. The senior pastor stood up and asked the audience to begin singing, "Precious, Precious Blood of Jesus." As soon as we started singing, the woman dropped to the polished cement floor and began to thrash violently, making grunting noises. We kept singing while the ushers/deacons gathered around the woman and prayed over her - cant remember if they laid hands on her or not. This went on for a minute or two and then the woman went limp. She came to, and got up totally alarmed, no awareness of how she had gotten to where she was and about anything he had done.

About a week later she issued an apology to the church, saying she was from a town about 30 miles away and had no recollection of how she had arrived at the church nor anything she had done except what was told to her.

The events of that night were extremely disturbing to me and many of the students - on several levels. 1) It appeared like a definite attack to disturb and discredit a sermon dealing with crucial subject-matter, 2) It didn't seem that those in charge were prepared for such an occurrence, and 3) it did not appear that a deliverance necessarily happened (more like the attack was quelled).

Anyway, that's one instance.

 

[tkotom]

Why didn't anyone in there call for an ambulance? Wtf.

 

[Honestnathaniel]

I've done it in other threads . . . Do you really want me to? It's kind of long.

A demon-possessed woman - the story rises above the others (have encountered at least 3 others).

I was in seminary and it was a night-service at the college church. At the time, attendance was required. There were about 500 students sitting semi-zoned out in the audience. The speaker was a college professor and the sermon was on The Bible being the authoritative, actual words God. The topic IMO was very key to what followed.

The speaker had just started, when from the back of the church strolled a woman in spandex shorts, a tank-top and brown leather jacket to the front, standing maybe 4 feet away from the speaker behind the pulpit. He had just begun preaching, announcing the subject of the sermon and a few introductory comments. Immediately the woman began pacing back and forth in swaying agitation to what was being said. She then began to speak in a low growling voice, "you're lying." Over and over again to the professor. After about a minute, the speaker stopped his sermon and, appearing somewhat flustered/under attack, said to the woman, "excuse me miss, can I help you?" The woman kept pacing back and forth in front of the podium and speaking more loudly, saying, "you're lying!"

At this, the speaker motioned to ushers at the back of the church and to the senior pastor behind him on the stage that this wasn't a gimmick and to come forward. The senior pastor stood up and asked the audience to begin singing, "Precious, Precious Blood of Jesus." As soon as we started singing, the woman dropped to the polished cement floor and began to thrash violently, making grunting noises. We kept singing while the ushers/deacons gathered around the woman and prayed over her - cant remember if they laid hands on her or not. This went on for a minute or two and then the woman went limp. She came to, and got up totally alarmed, no awareness of how she had gotten to where she was and about anything he had done.

About a week later she issued an apology to the church, saying she was from a town about 30 miles away and had no recollection of how she had arrived at the church nor anything she had done except what was told to her.

The events of that night were extremely disturbing to me and many of the students - on several levels. 1) It appeared like a definite attack to disturb and discredit a sermon dealing with crucial subject-matter, 2) It didn't seem that those in charge were prepared for such an occurrence, and 3) it did not appear that a deliverance necessarily happened (more like the attack was quelled).

Anyway, that's one instance.

I couldnt help but be a little freaked at that, childhood memories of the exorsist die hard I guess. There many possible explanations for that scenario, but regardless, thanks for sharing.

 

[seatea]

I've done it in other threads . . . Do you really want me to? It's kind of long.

A demon-possessed woman - the story rises above the others (have encountered at least 3 others).

I was in seminary and it was a night-service at the college church. At the time, attendance was required. There were about 500 students sitting semi-zoned out in the audience. The speaker was a college professor and the sermon was on The Bible being the authoritative, actual words God. The topic IMO was very key to what followed.

The speaker had just started, when from the back of the church strolled a woman in spandex shorts, a tank-top and brown leather jacket to the front, standing maybe 4 feet away from the speaker behind the pulpit. He had just begun preaching, announcing the subject of the sermon and a few introductory comments. Immediately the woman began pacing back and forth in swaying agitation to what was being said. She then began to speak in a low growling voice, "you're lying." Over and over again to the professor. After about a minute, the speaker stopped his sermon and, appearing somewhat flustered/under attack, said to the woman, "excuse me miss, can I help you?" The woman kept pacing back and forth in front of the podium and speaking more loudly, saying, "you're lying!"

At this, the speaker motioned to ushers at the back of the church and to the senior pastor behind him on the stage that this wasn't a gimmick and to come forward. The senior pastor stood up and asked the audience to begin singing, "Precious, Precious Blood of Jesus." As soon as we started singing, the woman dropped to the polished cement floor and began to thrash violently, making grunting noises. We kept singing while the ushers/deacons gathered around the woman and prayed over her - cant remember if they laid hands on her or not. This went on for a minute or two and then the woman went limp. She came to, and got up totally alarmed, no awareness of how she had gotten to where she was and about anything he had done.

About a week later she issued an apology to the church, saying she was from a town about 30 miles away and had no recollection of how she had arrived at the church nor anything she had done except what was told to her.

The events of that night were extremely disturbing to me and many of the students - on several levels. 1) It appeared like a definite attack to disturb and discredit a sermon dealing with crucial subject-matter, 2) It didn't seem that those in charge were prepared for such an occurrence, and 3) it did not appear that a deliverance necessarily happened (more like the attack was quelled).

Anyway, that's one instance.

And what in this situation makes demon possession a more likely explaination than mental illness?

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

Do I take these kinds of things to be true on a factual basis? No.

Do I see merit in some kinds of belief systems that can't be scientifically established? Yes.


I tend to go in circles with this kind of stuff.

 

[PhantomNugget**]

I've done it in other threads . . . Do you really want me to? It's kind of long.

A demon-possessed woman - the story rises above the others (have encountered at least 3 others).

I was in seminary and it was a night-service at the college church. At the time, attendance was required. There were about 500 students sitting semi-zoned out in the audience. The speaker was a college professor and the sermon was on The Bible being the authoritative, actual words God. The topic IMO was very key to what followed.

The speaker had just started, when from the back of the church strolled a woman in spandex shorts, a tank-top and brown leather jacket to the front, standing maybe 4 feet away from the speaker behind the pulpit. He had just begun preaching, announcing the subject of the sermon and a few introductory comments. Immediately the woman began pacing back and forth in swaying agitation to what was being said. She then began to speak in a low growling voice, "you're lying." Over and over again to the professor. After about a minute, the speaker stopped his sermon and, appearing somewhat flustered/under attack, said to the woman, "excuse me miss, can I help you?" The woman kept pacing back and forth in front of the podium and speaking more loudly, saying, "you're lying!"

At this, the speaker motioned to ushers at the back of the church and to the senior pastor behind him on the stage that this wasn't a gimmick and to come forward. The senior pastor stood up and asked the audience to begin singing, "Precious, Precious Blood of Jesus." As soon as we started singing, the woman dropped to the polished cement floor and began to thrash violently, making grunting noises. We kept singing while the ushers/deacons gathered around the woman and prayed over her - cant remember if they laid hands on her or not. This went on for a minute or two and then the woman went limp. She came to, and got up totally alarmed, no awareness of how she had gotten to where she was and about anything he had done.

About a week later she issued an apology to the church, saying she was from a town about 30 miles away and had no recollection of how she had arrived at the church nor anything she had done except what was told to her.

The events of that night were extremely disturbing to me and many of the students - on several levels. 1) It appeared like a definite attack to disturb and discredit a sermon dealing with crucial subject-matter, 2) It didn't seem that those in charge were prepared for such an occurrence, and 3) it did not appear that a deliverance necessarily happened (more like the attack was quelled).

Anyway, that's one instance.

Love reading your posts Joe, you seem to see spiritual matters the same way I do.

And the story you posted, I believe things like that do in fact happen. It can be either possession, or oppression (lot of people don't know about oppression). I personally believe a lot of things labelled as psychiatric issues are actually spiritual attacks, but I digress.

And there are ways that people can pick that story apart. They could say it was a stunt, a con, a psychotic woman, etc. But I believe these things do happen.

And tbh, I've seriously wondered about Mayhem's church episodes, and his subsequent....oddness. He could in fact be under spiritual attack. Say what you will people, but imo there IS a spiritual realm, and we need to learn more about it.

 

[seatea]

we need to learn more about it.

And just how do you propose to do that?

 

[VeryMuch]

I've done it in other threads . . . Do you really want me to? It's kind of long.

A demon-possessed woman - the story rises above the others (have encountered at least 3 others).

I was in seminary and it was a night-service at the college church. At the time, attendance was required. There were about 500 students sitting semi-zoned out in the audience. The speaker was a college professor and the sermon was on The Bible being the authoritative, actual words God. The topic IMO was very key to what followed.

The speaker had just started, when from the back of the church strolled a woman in spandex shorts, a tank-top and brown leather jacket to the front, standing maybe 4 feet away from the speaker behind the pulpit. He had just begun preaching, announcing the subject of the sermon and a few introductory comments. Immediately the woman began pacing back and forth in swaying agitation to what was being said. She then began to speak in a low growling voice, "you're lying." Over and over again to the professor. After about a minute, the speaker stopped his sermon and, appearing somewhat flustered/under attack, said to the woman, "excuse me miss, can I help you?" The woman kept pacing back and forth in front of the podium and speaking more loudly, saying, "you're lying!"

At this, the speaker motioned to ushers at the back of the church and to the senior pastor behind him on the stage that this wasn't a gimmick and to come forward. The senior pastor stood up and asked the audience to begin singing, "Precious, Precious Blood of Jesus." As soon as we started singing, the woman dropped to the polished cement floor and began to thrash violently, making grunting noises. We kept singing while the ushers/deacons gathered around the woman and prayed over her - cant remember if they laid hands on her or not. This went on for a minute or two and then the woman went limp. She came to, and got up totally alarmed, no awareness of how she had gotten to where she was and about anything he had done.

About a week later she issued an apology to the church, saying she was from a town about 30 miles away and had no recollection of how she had arrived at the church nor anything she had done except what was told to her.

The events of that night were extremely disturbing to me and many of the students - on several levels. 1) It appeared like a definite attack to disturb and discredit a sermon dealing with crucial subject-matter, 2) It didn't seem that those in charge were prepared for such an occurrence, and 3) it did not appear that a deliverance necessarily happened (more like the attack was quelled).

Anyway, that's one instance.

What is the above other than a scene for a budget horror movie? A woman had a mental episode and it's expression was influenced by and fixated on the predominant religion in her culture. How is that surprising? Here in China, you hear about similar episodes but guess what? The content of the episodes reflect local beliefs and customs.

You believe that god blessed you with a rational mind then you refuse to use it?

 

[dissolved]

And what in this situation makes demon possession a more likely explaination than mental illness?

Lots of really, really convenient coincidences. The subject matter of the sermon was key - one of the most fundamental topics in Christianity. The woman falling down and thrashing around to the words of Precious, Precious Blood of Jesus (key in exorcisms and warring against darkness).

I guess I didn't mention it in my post, but there was no history of "mental illness" with the woman - at least what was read from her mail apology. Also, apart from her out-of-place attire, she didn't appear disturbed (ie. like some raving street person). I think this was why it took awhile for all pastors involved to even react/confront the woman. And, for what it's worth, there was a presence/feeling of evil in what transpired.

I personally think it would be as/or more difficult to explain the woman coming to a church 30 miles away unaware of her actions and do what she did to mental illness than it is to consider the likelihood of possession.

 

[PhantomNugget**]

And just how do you propose to do that?

Idk, I'm not a fucking scientist. All I can do is personally research it for myself, and try interpreting life situations through a spiritual lens, as well as a scientific lens.

It's like mma, one single viewpoint is NOT gonna give you a complete picture of reality. Science is a great tool. But it's got limitations. Spirituality/religion is also a great tool, and can be used in conjunction with science to make you a more well rounded person.