New Orleans removing confederate icons

[JimmyFresno]

You think Trump would support keeping the icons or getting rid of them?

Again, I regret even mentioning Trump, as he isn't the point.

The point is that things like this open up old wounds, widen the divide between people who otherwise would like to move on from the past, without forgetting it. And this is causing people to knee-jerk vote for anything that isn't going to destroy their history, whether it fits the current PC narrative, or not.

This seems to be more antagonistic than anything, and the question is why?

Are we going to dynamite Mount Rushmore, because those men don't fit in with PC? Does George Washington himself need to check his privilege?

When the fuck are going to let the 19th century die already, and focus on 2015 problems. For profit prisons, drug war, "global war on terror", a rusty, broken immigration system, the student debt bubble...

But no, we have to fuck with people who disagree with us by brow beating them into destroying their own historical artifacts, so no one will be offended. Well, people are offended. And again, the question is why?

 

[TSO]

Again, I regret even mentioning Trump, as he isn't the point.

The point is that things like this open up old wounds, widen the divide between people who otherwise would like to move on from the past, without forgetting it. And this is causing people to knee-jerk vote for anything that isn't going to destroy their history, whether it fits the current PC narrative, or not.

This seems to be more antagonistic than anything, and the question is why?

Are we going to dynamite Mount Rushmore, because those men don't fit in with PC? Does George Washington himself need to check his privilege?

When the fuck are going to let the 19th century die already, and focus on 2015 problems. For profit prisons, drug war, "global war on terror", a rusty, broken immigration system, the student debt bubble...

But no, we have to fuck with people who disagree with us by brow beating them into destroying their own historical artifacts, so no one will be offended. Well, people are offended. And again, the question is why?

There are no historical artifacts being taken down. There are symbols of treachery being taken down. Those symbols are as much representation of everything wrong with the wold as an ISIS flag.

 

[JimmyFresno]

There are no historical artifacts being taken down. There are symbols of treachery being taken down. Those symbols are as much representation of everything wrong with the wold as an ISIS flag.

In your eyes. In the eyes of others, perhaps those who had family that fought for the Confederacy, it is a part of their history.

How does antagonizing people benefit us?

 

[TSO]

In your eyes. In the eyes of others, perhaps those who had family that fought for the Confederacy, it is a part of their history.

How does antagonizing people benefit us?

My family fought for the south. There is nothing more that we would like than for monuments to our traitorous ancestors destroyed. This is the united states and that shit is the history of an enemy country that dumb fucking people romanticize.

 

[panamaican]

In your eyes. In the eyes of others, perhaps those who had family that fought for the Confederacy, it is a part of their history.

How does antagonizing people benefit us?

There is no Confederacy anymore. It's all U.S. land. Statues to enemy commanders don't belong on our soil. It's no more antagonistic than removing statues of the King of England after the Revolutionary War. There were people here who were supporters of the British and fought on their side. It doesn't matter. One side lost, their statues aren't important to our history. The history books are plenty.

 

[Uchi Mata]

They're traitors because they lost. Everyone in the original colonies is a traitor to the english crown, yet they aren't remembered as such villains.

The south can have their war heroes like anyone else.

Who wins matters. Not to mention the fact that American colonists fought to end rule without representation. The South fought for the right to own black people as property. If you can't see the difference there you're being willfully dense.

 

[JimmyFresno]

My family fought for the south. There is nothing more that we would like than for monuments to our traitorous ancestors destroyed. This is the united states and that shit is the history of an enemy country that dumb fucking people romanticize.

My family was in Canada, or Europe during the war, so I have no dog in this fight.

I do see divisive politics going on, and wonder what it's all about.

Again, the world you see is through your own eyes, and there are those who are proud of their heritage. [Not to say that you aren't proud of your heritage, btw]

 

[TSO]

My family was in Canada, or Europe during the war, so I have no dog in this fight.

I do see divisive politics going on, and wonder what it's all about.

Again, the world you see is through your own eyes, and there are those who are proud of their heritage. [Not to say that you aren't proud of your heritage, btw]

It isn't about anyone's heritage. They were nothing more than criminals on the largest scale we have ever seen. It is the most disrespectful thing to do to the enslaved population to have monuments to those who tried keep them enslaved.

 

[DeJulez]

The same people that say Robert E Lee was a good guy are the same people that freak out if you say Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were good kids.

 

[JimmyFresno]

There is no Confederacy anymore. It's all U.S. land. Statues to enemy commanders don't belong on our soil. It's no more antagonistic than removing statues of the King of England after the Revolutionary War. There were people here who were supporters of the British and fought on their side. It doesn't matter. One side lost, their statues aren't important to our history. The history books are plenty.

We wouldn't be talking about it if this weren't an issue for some people.

Of course there is no Confederacy anymore. There are those, however, that are proud to be from the South, who did have family who fought in the war, and who are proud of their ancestors.

This is an issue for a lot of people.

 

[TSO]

The same people that say Robert E Lee was a good guy are the same people that freak out if you say Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were good kids.

All of those were scum.

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

You can acknowledge the past without honoring it. Nothing against Lee but he was the general of the side that tried to break up the Union. His side lost. His place in history is in the history books. Since when did we celebrate losers?

For comparison, look at Benedict Arnold. He was well-respected right up until he turned traitor. We don't complain that his good moments aren't memorialized via statue. Why? Because in the end, he was on the losing side. If the British had won, he would have statues and George Washington wouldn't.

That's life. At some point, the South has to stop celebrating that they lost a major war.

this might make sense if i were saying that we need to build statues. i am simply saying that we dont need to tear shit down that is already up. it is stupid. it isnt going to change what happened.

 

[UpaLoompa]

My family was in Canada, or Europe during the war, so I have no dog in this fight.

I do see divisive politics going on, and wonder what it's all about.

Again, the world you see is through your own eyes, and there are those who are proud of their heritage. [Not to say that you aren't proud of your heritage, btw]

The divisiveness is there in the form of monuments honoring traitors that fought for the right to own people, not in taking those monuments down.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

My family fought for the south. There is nothing more that we would like than for monuments to our traitorous ancestors destroyed. This is the united states and that shit is the history of an enemy country that dumb fucking people romanticize.

Yup. All these parallels people are attempting to draw-Mt Rushmore, Washington, etc, aren't the same at all.

A monument is glorification, not simply historically informative. I'm a history buff, but have no problem with removal of monuments that lionize traitors who fought for against the United States.

 

[DeJulez]

All of those were scum.

Were they though?
Chris Kyle seems more like a scumbag than Martin and Brown could ever be.
I mean really what made Trayvon Martin a scumbag? Because he wrote W.T.F on a locker, and i don't mean he wrote "what the fuck", i mean he literally wrote w.t.f.
And him doing nothing but walking home in the rain doesn't make him a scumbag.
Brown taking $3 worth of swishers doesn't make him a scumbag.
And he didn't take $48 worth of swishers. I fuckin know swishers and no way he had 48 of them in his hand, a swisher is a dollar a piece unless you by the packets that are $1 for two, which means he would have to have takin 24 packets which he clearly did not.

 

[TSO]

Were they though?
Chris Kyle seems more like a scumbag than Martin and Brown could ever be.
I mean really what made Trayvon Martin a scumbag? Because he wrote W.T.F on a locker, and i don't mean he wrote "what the fuck", i mean he literally wrote w.t.f.

Sure, I think anyone who invades another country under the flag of imperialism is scum. And he loved it so much he kept going back.

And him doing nothing but walking home in the rain doesn't make him a scumbag.
Brown taking $3 worth of swishers doesn't make him a scumbag.
And he didn't take $48 worth of swishers. I fuckin know swishers and no way he had 48 of them in his hand, a swisher is a dollar a piece unless you by the packets that are $1 for two, which means he would have to have takin 24 packets which he clearly did not.

They were thugs, thugs are scum.

 

[DeJulez]

Sure, I think anyone who invades another country under the flag of imperialism is scum. And he loved it so much he kept going back.
They were thugs, thugs are scum.

I know thugs. They weren't no thugs.
For sure Martin wasn't, Brown i really don't know as much about him.
But go meet a real thug and see how vastly childlike Martin is.

 

[UpaLoompa]

They were thugs, thugs are scum.

I got in more fights than TM, he wasn't a "thug".

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

I know thugs. They weren't no thugs.
For sure Martin wasn't, Brown i really don't know as much about him.
But go meet a real thug and see how vastly childlike Martin is.

There are different level of thugs, and I'm sure we can all agree there are far worse, pernicious varieties of "thug."

Trayvon, I'm unsure if the "thug" label applies...he was more of a young punk who smoked some weed and put it on social media and got into a few fights...

Mike Brown was a violent criminal, who robbed an old man in his store, that he worked hard to create...and then he tops it off by attacking a police officer.

Mike Brown was a piece of shit, and a thug.

There are far more egregious examples of police misconduct or "abuse of power." With Officer Wilson, it doesn't apply.

You guys need to pick your battles. Making a martyr out of Mike Brown undermines your credibility...

 

[DeJulez]

There are different level of thugs, and I'm sure we can all agree there are far worse, pernicious varieties of "thug."

Trayvon, I'm unsure if the "thug" label applies...he was more of a young punk who smoked some weed and put it on social media and got into a few fights...

Mike Brown was a violent criminal, who robbed an old man in his store, that he worked hard to create...and then he tops it off by attacking a police officer.

Mike Brown was a piece of shit, and a thug.

There are far more egregious examples of police misconduct or "abuse of power." With Officer Wilson, it doesn't apply.

You guys need to pick your battles. Making a martyr out of Mike Brown undermines your credibility...

Trayvon wasn't a thug at all. Mitt Romney did far worse as a kid and Mitt is no thug.
I don't believe the narrative with Mike Brown-Darren Wilson. It doesnt add up. Why punch him and then run away only to run at him while he unloads.
Most of all Wilson staring at the camera and saying Brown looked like a demon and he feared for his life was such a crock of shit.
Him and GZ know they were in the wrong.
GZ was definitely in the wrong, Wilson could be telling the truth, none of us know, but their responses don't make them seem innocent.