New Jersey School Suspends Students For Going to Range with Parents.

[Scrody]

Yes it is. Go peddle your lies elsewhere.

I list states with low crime but high ownership, you go "nuh uh!"

 

[BudKing8806]

Okay you named one place. I can name ten places with very loose gun laws and they all have the most problems with guns.

Yes, please do.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Fists, knives, baseball bats. Hell, close the shop class. Besides being totalitarian in nature, the rule is poorly written. "Weapons" can mean anything. I wonder if this school has a wrestling team as those kids are being trained as human weapons.

Ladders and brooms should go ....

 

[Mark Cutting]

Fists, knives, baseball bats. Hell, close the shop class. Besides being totalitarian in nature, the rule is poorly written. "Weapons" can mean anything. I wonder if this school has a wrestling team as those kids are being trained as human weapons.

I made a battle axe instead of the assigned bird house in shop. Got a D.

Edit: a poorly designed one at that. First time I hit something with it it broke in half.

Edit Edit: My childhood idol was a mullet headed teenager named Dwayne Gessell. He rode a Mongoose and was 15 when he was in 7th grade.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I list states with low crime but high ownership, you go "nuh uh!"

No you didn’t. The places with the loosest gun laws have the most gun deaths.

 

[Mark Cutting]

Yes, please do.

Wakanda !

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

You made some post about nj being stupid and that we should laugh st the state.

Laugh at the school not the state

It was a joke based on your post the other day saying the world laughs at America.

And isn't this taking place in the government-run school district? Either way, sorry you didn't catch the reference.

 

[panamaican]

Training is considered part of the core right according to Ezell which is a opinion written by Judge Posner where Chicago banned shooting ranges. The 7th Circuit enjoined the law.
The issue with the First Amendment is this applies at all times. How can there be a substantial disruption to school activities if you are at the range with your parents?

If that does not work I've got state law ultra vires. Read this case.

https://www.aclu-nj.org/files/3013/4314/3773/2012_07_24_a0953-10.pdf

I can go straight state all but I am pushing a ultra vires theory through the courts that if successful will get around exhaustion of remedies for many state law claims (not applicable here) while allowing 1983 litgators to use them via due process

Did you read the Safe School Initiative? I linked it shortly after that post.
Ok, I'm going to disagree with you based on reading the linked case, NJ 6A:16-7.1, .5; 18A:37-2. First and foremost, your cited case supports the ability of the school to discipline for conduct away from school grounds.

The regulation in the cited case was dismissed as being overly broad because it penalized all activity that would be a criminal or juvenile delinquency offense. Nor was it limited to drug and alcohol offenses. To emphasize the overly broad nature of the regulation, the court noted that even littering would trigger the penalty. It was not dismissed based on a lack of authority over away from school conduct.

I do not think the regulation here is over broad. It is specific to weapons and a period of time. NJ has a broad definition of "weapons" and that appears to be the definition that the district is applying.

If the authority to discipline for actions away from school grounds stands then there has to be a nexus between the activity and the operation of the school. IMO, the reference to the Safe School Initiative (SSI) and the recent history regarding school shootings provides a defensible nexus for the school. One of the key findings from the SSI is the following:

Experience using weapons and access to them was common for many attackers. Nearly two-thirds of the attackers had a known history of weapons use, including knives, guns, and bombs (63 percent, n=26). Over half of the attackers had some experience specifically with a gun prior to the incident (59 percent, n=24), while others had experience with bombs or explosives (15 percent, n=6). However, fewer than half of the attackers demonstrated any fascination or excessive interest with weapons (44 percent, n=18), and fewer than one-third showed a fascination with explosives (32 percent, n=13) prior to their attacks. Over two-thirds of the attackers acquired the gun (or guns) used in their attacks from their own home or that of a relative (68 percent, n=28).

Based on those findings, the school has a reasonable argument that the safety and well-being of other students is at issue when students are found to be familiarizing themselves with weapons away from school grounds. That this regulation exists to "prevent the occurrence of problem behaviors" which is something their code of conduct is allowed to address.

And then I'd point to this regarding 2 different NJ students who were threatening shootings in their school district. All adding credence to the school district's argument that protection of other students is a good enough reason for this regulation.

 

[Scrody]

No you didn’t. The places with the loosest gun laws have the most gun deaths.

You're disappointing kong.

 

[panamaican]

They are banning hunting; the majority of states do not require a license to walk along with a legal hunter, the presence of a firearm or other legal hunting tool is what changes it from an unlicensed walk to poaching.

Similar to being on a boat with someone who is fishing, if you don’t have tackle or a rod you’re good to go

They are not banning hunting. That's equivalent to saying that because they ban drunk driving, they're banning drinking and they're banning driving. No, they're banning a very specific combination of events. Kids can still get hunting licenses, they can still own firearms, they can still go hunt. They just can't be in possession of the weapon during the academic year.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

You're disappointing kong.

DO you think NJ would be better off if we loosened our gun laws here?

 

[Scrody]

DO you think NJ would be better off if we loosened our gun laws here?

Not if you stay there.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The regulation in the cited case was dismissed as being overly broad because it penalized all activity that would be a criminal or juvenile delinquency offense.

If it can't do that then how can it punish someone for something that isn't even a crime? Not only not a crime, but a Constitutionally enumerated right.

 

[Scrody]

They are not banning hunting. That's equivalent to saying that because they ban drunk driving, they're banning drinking and they're banning driving. No, they're banning a very specific combination of events. Kids can still get hunting licenses, they can still own firearms, they can still go hunt. They just can't be in possession of the weapon during the academic year.

Hunting season is the academic year. September through around May depending on what you're hunting.

 

[panamaican]

If it can't do that then how can it punish someone for something that isn't even a crime? Not only not a crime, but a Constitutionally enumerated right.

It was too broad because it penalized everything that could be a crime or offense, even if there was no criminal proceeding against the student. By contrast, if it limited only to times when the kids were actually convicted of a crime, it might have been better. Or to just the drug and alcohol stuff, that might have been okay as well.

But since even a minor offense would trigger the law, the discipline that followed would frequently not be appropriate. Being removed from extracurricular activities for littering is well beyond the scope of the school district because there's no relationship between littering off campus and the school's responsibilities.

Here, the law is fairly narrow - possession of a weapon during 9 specific months of the year.

There's some relationship between weapon possession and school safety. The question is if the relationship is strong enough to justify the regulation. I think the school can make a very strong case that there is.

 

[panamaican]

Hunting season is the academic year. September through around May depending on what you're hunting.

There's hunting in June, July, and August. Per google - woodchuck and crows are 2 options in NJ.

 

[Scrody]

There's hunting in June, July, and August. Per google - woodchuck and crows are 2 options in NJ.

Useless creatures. What if the students want to hunt deer?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

It was too broad because it penalized everything that could be a crime or offense, even if there was no criminal proceeding against the student. By contrast, if it limited only to times when the kids were actually convicted of a crime, it might have been better. Or to just the drug and alcohol stuff, that might have been okay as well.

But since even a minor offense would trigger the law, the discipline that followed would frequently not be appropriate. Being removed from extracurricular activities for littering is well beyond the scope of the school district because there's no relationship between littering off campus and the school's responsibilities.

Here, the law is fairly narrow - possession of a weapon during 9 specific months of the year.

There's some relationship between weapon possession and school safety. The question is if the relationship is strong enough to justify the regulation. I think the school can make a very strong case that there is.

Thanks. But I'm more interested in how a case that says you can punish kids for some criminal offenses (but not all) allows for kids to be punished for something Constitutionally protected.

 

[panamaican]

Useless creatures. What if the students want to hunt deer?

Wait till they graduate, I guess. I'm not saying it's fun but plenty of people have suggested that the regulation inadvertently bans hunting for students. NJ still has some options during the summer so hunting is still an option for those who want. They just have fewer choices. Really just one because crows don't start until August 14.

 

[floivanus]

They are not banning hunting. That's equivalent to saying that because they ban drunk driving, they're banning drinking and they're banning driving. No, they're banning a very specific combination of events. Kids can still get hunting licenses, they can still own firearms, they can still go hunt. They just can't be in possession of the weapon during the academic year.

I said they are keeping them from doing it. Deer runs from sept 23- feb 17th turkey is oct 20-nov 11. Then out of the entire slew of small game in NJ ONLY woodchuck is available to hunt from June-August, the typical school break.

http://www.eregulations.com/newjersey/hunting/small-game-hunting-seasons/

Like others have said typical hunting seasons are fall to spring. Yes they aren’t banning it, but the typical best harvest for food (deer, fowl, rabbit, turkey) are forbidden.