New age fitness too complex?

[MaxMMA]

Probably going to get flamed big time for this post, but here goes. I've been in the MMA scene for quite sometime, I'm an MMA veteran of 18 fights combined ammy/pro. During this time I've trained at 4 different MMA gyms, and probably half a dozen other martial arts gyms (boxing gyms, TKD, karate, bjj schools, and even a wrestling club at one point).

During the old days (early 2000s for me) the S&C at the places I trained was very straight forward. If you lacked strength coach had you lift and/or did calisthenics, if you needed to improve cardio you hit the road or pool, fight camp was reserved for hitt training, which we called hurricane training back then.

Fast forward to today and every gym no matter how big or how small has designated S&C coaches and most of them have some pretty advanced training programs. These coaches have people doing hundreds of different exercises and lifts, static movements, explosive movements, resistance bands, the list goes on and on. Not always, but usually they accompany these exercises with phrases like "this is going to increase your power!" "this will increase the torque of your hips!" "This will improve your guard retention!" "This will help you EXPLODE into the takedowns!"

Meanwhile the crippled old coaches teaching the technical classes can beat the shit out of 90% of the students they coach. What I'm trying to ask is it possible these popular MMA teams and coaches are over complicating S&C? At the end of the day isn't S&C about strengthening your body to withstand the rigors of MMA training and building energy to fuel your technical sessions and performance?

Is it really necessary to do hundreds of different movements utilizing hundreds of different techniques and equipment to accomplish this goal? At the end of the day the way to get more punching power is to punch, the way to get "explosive" take downs is to shoot hundreds of take downs.

Looking forward to your input.

 

[CRZA]

I think alot of S&C coaches do fancy and complicated training to sell their product in a oversaturated market. Hard work and basic training wont convince any clients to buy their services.
Hard work and basic S&C over a long time will beat any training method. But no one wants to hear it.

 

[vision1]

What I'm trying to ask is it possible these popular MMA teams and coaches are over complicated S&C?
Is it really necessary to do hundreds of different movements utilizing hundreds of different techniques and equipment to accomplish this goal? At the end of the day the way to get more punching power is to punch, the way to get "explosive" take downs is to shoot hundreds of take downs.
Looking forward to your input.

That's a difficult question to answer. You can't group all S&C coaches together because they're all different in their methods.

Is it necessary to do hundreds of different movements? No ... Can it be beneficial? Maybe

The best way to get better at punching is by punching and the best way to improve your takedowns is through takedowns ... but it's not the only way. How many repetitions do you need to perform before improvements trend towards zero? There comes a point in time where you may make greater improvements through other methods.

 

[Cole train]

18 fights is far from veteran

I had 16 and i was considered a beginner (i lost most lol)

Not shitting on you ,just saying

Anyway i think approach that you mentioned in your op is more effective generally since most ammys plus low level pros have to work on technique.

When you become high level pro you can get fancy with strength and conditioning.

Also damn how developed mma is in usa Mma Gyms having own S+C coaches is crazy

 

[Jkillah]

I've never competed im MMA, but I don't see why the strength training aspect would need to be dramatically different than powerlifting training other than possibly different rest intervals to give you time to recover from the other types of training you do.

 

[MaxMMA]

18 fights is far from veteran

I had 16 and i was considered a beginner (i lost most lol)

Not shitting on you ,just saying

Anyway i think approach that you mentioned in your op is more effective generally since most ammys plus low level pros have to work on technique.

When you become high level pro you can get fancy with strength and conditioning.

Also damn how developed mma is in usa Mma Gyms having own S+C coaches is crazy

Lol you're not talking shit, you're selling yourself short it sounds like. 16 mma fights is no walk in the park. I don't know about you but I went through 18 fight camps for myself and was an active member of other fighters training camps (including multiple UFC fighters) of these there are too many for me to even remember... In total years trained I've been actively involved in a 100+ fight camps.

Don't sell yourself short, you should wear those fights like badge.

 

[MaxMMA]

I've never competed im MMA, but I don't see why the strength training aspect would need to be dramatically different than powerlifting training other than possibly different rest intervals to give you time to recover from the other types of training you do.

Powerlifting or weightlifting type workouts where you are doing sets and resting between are not typical in MMA s&c sessions. Although those lifts are utilized, even in strength specific sessions the goal isn't to lift as much as possible and I've never maxed out 1 rep in any MMA s&c session.

Not saying there aren't coaches or fighters that do it, I have just never experienced that.

 

[nefti]

Alot of wrestling/judo/grappling exercises arnt new, they have been around for a long time.

 

[No Skill Gap]

It's an extremely nuanced question and answer.

First off are we talking pros? UFC athletes? Are they on PEDs and therefore their MRV (Maximum Recoverable Volume) is much higher than Jimmy Hobbyist on top of the fact their life revolves around training?

Someone answered it already for the most part. A lot of trainers, Athlean-X being a good example of a famous youtube version, fell into "functional" training bullshit, and over emphasis on correction/prehab shit. Not that the latter is bad necessarily. But a lot of trainers went this route. Look at the manlet who trained Jeremy Stephens for instance dancing around with cables like a kid at the park. It's bullshit.

In reality there's trade-offs. Being the best powerlifter in the world isn't conducive to being the best MMA fighter or BJJ player or wrestler or Judoka. And no one, even on steroids/HGH, can recover from attempting to maximize both.

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

Can you imagine obsessing over every little parameter of fitness your entire life and then someone like Herschel Walker steps into your MMA gym for the first time at age 45 and just dominates you without trying? S&C coaches are there to help us cope with that and give us the illusion that hard work can overcome our genetic limitations. Bless them for giving average folk a glimmer of hope.

 

[MaxMMA]

Can you imagine obsessing over every little parameter of fitness your entire life and then someone like Herschel Walker steps into your MMA gym for the first time at age 45 and just dominates you without trying? S&C coaches are there to help us cope with that and give us the illusion that hard work can overcome our genetic limitations. Bless them for giving average folk a glimmer of hope.

Uhhh accordingly to Herschel Walker himself, he has been doing thousands of calisthenic movements every week since he was a teenager.

Not sure you can chalk his physicality up to genetics.

 

[vision1]

I rented this movie from the library when I was 7 years old and proceeded to do situps every time I watched TV until I was able to flex a 6 pack.

 

[gspieler]

Herschel also supposedly eats onky a single bowl of soup per day.

That said, the guy is obviously in the top .00001% of having good genetics for athletic endeavors.

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

Uhhh accordingly to Herschel Walker himself, he has been doing thousands of calisthenic movements every week since he was a teenager.

Not sure you can chalk his physicality up to genetics.

lol yeah, take everything he says with a grain of salt. His dietary claims alone defy the laws of thermodynamics. But anyone trying to build his athleticism with bodyweight calisthenics will be gravely disappointed. This was him in HS before he ever touched weights:

You will not replicate his results, even with the perfect diet and exercise routine (or PED's).

 

[Cole train]

Heres a smart idea

Lift weights and run

Really only things that average guy needs

 

[gspieler]

lol yeah, take everything he says with a grain of salt. His dietary claims alone defy the laws of thermodynamics. But anyone trying to build his athleticism with bodyweight calisthenics will be gravely disappointed. This was him in HS before he ever touched weights:

You will not replicate his results, even with the perfect diet and exercise routine (or PED's).

A++ level athlete. UFC champ after takin get a single boxercise class by Uncle Dana.

 

[TerryMCLOOPS]

lol yeah, take everything he says with a grain of salt. His dietary claims alone defy the laws of thermodynamics. But anyone trying to build his athleticism with bodyweight calisthenics will be gravely disappointed. This was him in HS before he ever touched weights:

You will not replicate his results, even with the perfect diet and exercise routine (or PED's).

You don't know what youre talking about dude

You don't have any idea what you're talking about just giving you a heads up.

 

[TerryMCLOOPS]

Can you imagine obsessing over every little parameter of fitness your entire life and then someone like Herschel Walker steps into your MMA gym for the first time at age 45 and just dominates you without trying? S&C coaches are there to help us cope with that and give us the illusion that hard work can overcome our genetic limitations. Bless them for giving average folk a glimmer of hope.

No.

Most people who "obsess over every detail" are just super committed to doing the wrong shit. You probably haven't progressed yourself to a high level of calisthenics training if you're talking this way. S&C coaches are for kids. If you're not educated yourself by the time you're into training as an adult, you dont even care enough about fitness to learn, why would anyone suspect a person like this is doing everything possible and everything right? This difference in commitment, which leads to a huge difference in knowledge, is more a factor than this mans genetics. Come on. S&C coaches are CLOWNS dude. This man you're showing has been personally obsessed since day one. You underestimate the power there.

 

[TerryMCLOOPS]

Uhhh accordingly to Herschel Walker himself, he has been doing thousands of calisthenic movements every week since he was a teenager.

Not sure you can chalk his physicality up to genetics.

Most people dismissing calisthenics would quit a few minutes into jumping jacks. You can safely ignore that attitude.

 

[TerryMCLOOPS]

Probably going to get flamed big time for this post, but here goes. I've been in the MMA scene for quite sometime, I'm an MMA veteran of 18 fights combined ammy/pro. During this time I've trained at 4 different MMA gyms, and probably half a dozen other martial arts gyms (boxing gyms, TKD, karate, bjj schools, and even a wrestling club at one point).

During the old days (early 2000s for me) the S&C at the places I trained was very straight forward. If you lacked strength coach had you lift and/or did calisthenics, if you needed to improve cardio you hit the road or pool, fight camp was reserved for hitt training, which we called hurricane training back then.

Fast forward to today and every gym no matter how big or how small has designated S&C coaches and most of them have some pretty advanced training programs. These coaches have people doing hundreds of different exercises and lifts, static movements, explosive movements, resistance bands, the list goes on and on. Not always, but usually they accompany these exercises with phrases like "this is going to increase your power!" "this will increase the torque of your hips!" "This will improve your guard retention!" "This will help you EXPLODE into the takedowns!"

Meanwhile the crippled old coaches teaching the technical classes can beat the shit out of 90% of the students they coach. What I'm trying to ask is it possible these popular MMA teams and coaches are over complicating S&C? At the end of the day isn't S&C about strengthening your body to withstand the rigors of MMA training and building energy to fuel your technical sessions and performance?

Is it really necessary to do hundreds of different movements utilizing hundreds of different techniques and equipment to accomplish this goal? At the end of the day the way to get more punching power is to punch, the way to get "explosive" take downs is to shoot hundreds of take downs.

Looking forward to your input.

Phil Daru is such a pro dude. I saw his bopping Dustin in the head with a pool noodle or something and asking him math problems before Khabib. Meanwhile Khabib is running, doing pullups and grappling. Basics for life dude.