He could've just claimed the bible was his favorite book like Trump and that would've made people happy and made them feel like this is a "Christian nation" I guess lol. I would sooner believe Bernie had read it then believe Trump has ever even opened a bible though.
When the distortion takes a person from being a very typical secular Jew to a label of atheism, that's a serious distortion. Not a small difference. It's blatantly dishonest behavior. You own the foreseeable consequences of your dishonesty. You can't minimize that dishonesty by pointing out the similarities between agnosticism and atheism. I can point to a large number of similarities between a very moderate Christian and an atheist. That doesn't give me any license to call the Christian atheist or agnostic, when that has the consequence of putting a seriously negative label on them.
Very fair. I think Obama, for example, has shown that his religious views did not get in the way of governance but the same cannot be said about lots of conservatives (who oppose SSM, women's right to choose, etc.). I do like Bernie's attitude personally I guess I just slightly disagree with you on it's importance.
But if you were to point to religious views that effect policy I would 100% agree with you.
The way you're framing faith-guided policymaking is wrong. You're assuming that policymaking in accordance with one's principles, derived from one's faith is one option, and being a good policymaker is another. That's not true at all. For the record, I support Sanders, while disagreeing with him on a lot of stuff, like SSM and abortion.
We weren't talking about his answer, but I'll humor you anyway.
The answer was spot on without any useless platitudes you hear from the GOP candidates. If he would have added that he believes Jesus is our lord and savior after everything that he said (helping the poor, covering medicine for people who can't afford it, you know very Christian things), he'd get a huge applause in a room filled with ripskaters and colbys.
Let me bring the discussion to a close with this single point, that the question of Sanders's beliefs will eventually be made a question in either the nomination or general races.
It's doubtful it'll come up in the nomination race, because Hillary isn't exactly a pillar of Christian principles. But believe the Republicans will bring it up in the general, either publicly, or as a dirty trick. This fight for the Presidency will be no holds barred, and the approval numbers for atheists aren't high.
It's funny, Trump actually does have support among the religious right. Usually they vote for bible thumpers like Cruz or Carson, but all Trump had to do was literally wave that book around a couple times and (perhaps more importantly) openly hate Islam and he gets votes.
There was a recent episode of the "This American Life" podcast where they interviewed a Christian radio show host. This guy was used to his listeners just voting for whoever he told them to vote for. Candidates would actually go out of their way trying to get his endorsement. But when he endorsed Cruz, his listener base has been fighting back supporting Trump instead and he is just baffled by it and constantly arguing with listeners who used to agree with him and go along with him lol
Radio Caller
"When I sit here and listen to Trump, I agree with a lot of what he's saying. And I want to remind your audience of a person in the Bible."
Tony Beam
"Oh, my gosh."
Radio Caller
"Who took down Jezebel? What was the name--"
Zoe Chace
OK, what Gene is talking about is in the Second Book of Kings, this guy Jehu murdered Queen Jezebel because she had pagan idols around the kingdom. Then he threw her body to the dogs. Jehu was like a warrior against a corrupt culture.
Radio Caller
"His name was Jehu. Do you remember that?"
Tony Beam
"I remember. And you think--"
Radio Caller
"The Book of Kings."
Tony Beam
"--Donald Trump is Jehu?"
Radio Caller
"Yes. Yes."
Tony Beam
"You do?"
Radio Caller
"Yes. Remember, Jehu was not a righteous man in God's eyes. And God used Jehu to fulfill Elijah's prophecy regarding Jezebel."
Tony Beam
"But you believe that God-- yeah, whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa, Gene. We have such chaos in this country that we would look to a man like Donald Trump, who has no core value system, to lead us back to the place that we need to be as a country."
The way you're framing faith-guided policymaking is wrong. You're assuming that policymaking in accordance with one's principles, derived from one's faith is one option, and being a good policymaker is another. That's not true at all. For the record, I support Sanders, while disagreeing with him on a lot of stuff, like SSM and abortion.
Yes, I think faith-based principles (as you call them) are an inherently flawed way of governing when they lead you to defy facts or take rights away from others that do not share your views. There absolutely is a difference in the way leaders arrive at different conclusions.
I'll explain. I agree with the position that our society should help the poor (let's avoid details for the sake of argument). If one arrived at that position because "that is what the bible says we should do" I would argue that is not sound reasoning for writing laws that would help the poor, even though I agree with the outcome. If one were to say that helping the poor has long term cost savings, leads to better, more advanced society, I would say that is pretty sound reasoning for supporting that law.
Now, I am not saying that morals shouldn't not factor in, but they do not have to be based on religious morals (and really shouldn't).
TLR - using the bible to back up your positions is a horrible way to govern and I will continue to argue that is an inferior method than using facts and reasoning.
I'm surprised at how rustled people are about Bernie's spiritual beliefs. His religion has never been relevant to his message. I'd say he's a humanist, which by definition is someone who wants to help humankind through the use of logic and critical thinking. That's good enough, I don't feel the need to know the finer details of his beliefs, and he might not feel comfortable sharing that anyway.
It's funny, Trump actually does have support among the religious right. Usually they vote for bible thumpers like Cruz or Carson, but all Trump had to do was literally wave that book around a couple times and (perhaps more importantly) openly hate Islam and he gets votes.
There was a recent episode of the "This American Life" podcast where they interviewed a Christian radio show host. This guy was used to his listeners just voting for whoever he told them to vote for. Candidates would actually go out of their way trying to get his endorsement. But when he endorsed Cruz, his listener base has been fighting back supporting Trump instead and he is just baffled by it and constantly arguing with listeners who used to agree with him and go along with him lol
Radio Caller
"When I sit here and listen to Trump, I agree with a lot of what he's saying. And I want to remind your audience of a person in the Bible."
Tony Beam
"Oh, my gosh."
Radio Caller
"Who took down Jezebel? What was the name--"
Zoe Chace
OK, what Gene is talking about is in the Second Book of Kings, this guy Jehu murdered Queen Jezebel because she had pagan idols around the kingdom. Then he threw her body to the dogs. Jehu was like a warrior against a corrupt culture.
Radio Caller
"His name was Jehu. Do you remember that?"
Tony Beam
"I remember. And you think--"
Radio Caller
"The Book of Kings."
Tony Beam
"--Donald Trump is Jehu?"
Radio Caller
"Yes. Yes."
Tony Beam
"You do?"
Radio Caller
"Yes. Remember, Jehu was not a righteous man in God's eyes. And God used Jehu to fulfill Elijah's prophecy regarding Jezebel."
Tony Beam
"But you believe that God-- yeah, whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa, Gene. We have such chaos in this country that we would look to a man like Donald Trump, who has no core value system, to lead us back to the place that we need to be as a country."
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R - using the bible to back up your positions is a horrible way to govern and I will continue to argue that is an inferior method than using facts and reasoning.
