International [NATO News] Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would "put NATO at war with Russia"

Finland, Sweden have 'full' US backing in Nato bid



President Joe Biden has said Sweden and Finland have the "full, total, complete backing" of the US in their historic decision to apply for Nato membership.

Both countries submitted their applications this week to be part of the defence alliance, a drastic shift in European geopolitics.

The move by the two Nordic nations has been opposed by Nato ally Turkey.

Russia sees Nato as a threat and has warned of "consequences" to expansion.

To join the alliance, the two nations need the support of all 30 Nato member states.

Speaking alongside Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson and Finnish Prime Minister Sauli Niinisto at the White House on Thursday, Mr Biden called Sweden and Finland's applications to join Nato "a watershed moment in European security".

Mr Biden added that having two new members in the "high north" will "enhance the security of our allies and deepen our security cooperation across the board".

"Let me be clear: new members joining Nato is not a threat to any nation," he said. "Nato's purpose is to defend against aggression. Let no one make a mistake on this historic day."

Mr Biden added that the required reports are being submitted to the US Congress "for speedy approval once Nato approves their accession".

In the US, new Nato memberships require legislation to pass in Congress with a two-thirds majority.

The decision by both countries to break decades of neutrality with their move to join Nato comes amid rising concerns for their own security following Russia's invasion of Ukraine. In Finland's case, the country shares an 810 mile (1,300 km) border with Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61511396
 
As expected, Putin went from threatening Finland and Sweden with nukes just last week to "it's fine, they're not a threat to Russia" after his empty bluff is called this week.<Lmaoo>


Putin says Sweden and Finland joining NATO is fine after all.

He's such an exposed, weak little creature. Meanwhile his troops commit attrocities on a daily basis against civilians.
 
I gotta say its funny how fast you could let countries join, something that wasn't provided for Russia when Putin asked for it.

Wait, so you think considering speeding up the membership of a country, that a military alliance was formed to counter, is a good idea ???

<JagsKiddingMe>
 
There are also other very big differences between Sweden, Finland and....Russia.....


There also are very deep reasons why EU de facto doesn't want to see Ukraine in EU, not alone in NATO.

Sweden during last >125 years had been considered as stabile country, safe environment for businesses and investments etc + with strong ties to west.
Finland had been closely supervised by west during last...~75 years...
It is democracy with good human rights practices, high level of foreign investments decades in row.
Had been supervised by EU before get accepted...
Financial system had been inspected and closely supervised before they were allowed to adopt EUR as currency.

___
 
Turkey demands ‘concrete steps’ to allow Finland, Sweden NATO membership
By — Suzan Fraser, Associated Press | May 25, 2022​



ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — A senior Turkish official insisted after talks with Swedish and Finnish officials Wednesday that Turkey would not agree to the two Nordic countries joining NATO unless specific steps are taken to address Ankara's objections.

"We have made it very clear that if Turkey's security concerns are not met with concrete steps in a certain timeframe the process will not progress," Ibrahim Kalin told a news conference after the talks in Ankara that lasted about five hours.

Kalin is the spokesman of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and a senior presidential aide.

Sweden and Finland submitted their written applications to join NATO last week, in a move representing one of the biggest geopolitical ramifications of Russia's war in Ukraine that could rewrite Europe's security map.

Turkey has said it opposes the countries' membership in the Western military alliance, citing grievances with Sweden's — and a to a lesser extent Finland's — perceived support of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, and other entities that Turkey views as security threats.

The PKK, which is listed as a terror organization by several of Turkey's allies, has waged a decades-long insurgency against Turkey, a conflict that has cost the lives of tens of thousands people.

The Turkish government also accuses Finland and Sweden of imposing arms exports restrictions on Turkey and refusing to extradite suspected "terrorists."

Turkey's objections have dampened Stockholm's and Helsinki's hopes for joining NATO quickly amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine and put the trans-Atlantic alliance's credibility at stake. All 30 NATO members must agree on admitting new members.

The Swedish and Finnish delegations met with Kalin and Turkish Deputy Foreign Minister Sedat Onal. The Swedish delegation was led by state secretary Oscar Stenstrom, while Jukka Salovaara, the foreign ministry undersecretary, headed up the Finnish delegation, Turkish officials said.

Kalin said Turkey's proposal to lift arms export limits was met with a "positive attitude" by the Swedish and Finnish delegations.

He added that talks would continue once the Nordic governments had responded to Turkey's demands.
Turkey also expects the extradition of 28 "terrorism" suspects from Sweden and 12 from Finland, Kalin said, adding that there was "no legal or judicial basis" not to extradite them. Turkish state media had previously said Turkey demanded the extradition of 33 suspects from the two countries.

Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson said following a meeting with European Council President Charles Michel in Stockholm that her country wanted to "clarify" claims that have been floating around during discussions with Turkey.

"We do not send money or weapons to terrorist organizations," Andersson said.

During a news conference with the Estonian prime minister later Wednesday, Andersson said that "in these times, it is important to strengthen our security."

She said Sweden has "a constructive dialogue" with Turkey and that Stockholm was "eager to sort out issues and misunderstandings and questions."

Michel, who is scheduled to head to Helsinki from Stockholm, said it was "a pivotal moment for Sweden" and "we fully support your choices."

Turkey this week listed five "concrete assurances" it was demanding from Sweden, including what it said was "termination of political support for terrorism," an "elimination of the source of terrorism financing," and the "cessation of arms support" to the banned PKK and a Syrian Kurdish militia group affiliated with it.

The demands also called for the lifting of arms sanctions against Turkey and global cooperation against terrorism.

Turkey said that it has requested the extradition of Kurdish militants and other suspects since 2017 but hasn't received a positive response from Stockholm. The Turkish government claimed Sweden had decided to provide $376 million to support the Kurdish militants in 2023 and that it had provided them with military equipment, including anti-tank weapons and drones.

Finland has received nine extradition requests from Turkey in a recent period covering over three years, Finnish news agency STT said Wednesday, citing data from the Finnish justice ministry. Two people were extradited while six of the requests were rejected. A decision was pending regarding one other case.

Speaking Tuesday before a meeting of the Council of the Baltic Sea States, German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said Russia had left Sweden and Finland "no choice" but to join NATO.

She said Germany would support the two countries' membership, calling it "a real gain" for the military alliance.
 
Albania offers former Soviet naval base to NATO
By LLAZAR SEMINI | MAY 26, 2022​

TIRANA, Albania (AP) — Albania has offered NATO a naval base in an effort to highlight the small country’s value in the alliance “in these difficult times,” the prime minister’s office said Thursday.

Prime Minister Edi Rama said Pashaliman naval base, 180 kilometers (110 miles) south of the capital Tirana, could be “an added value” to the alliance and they had prepared a project on its renovation.

“In these dangerous times I believe the general may consider having a NATO’s naval base in Albania,” Rama said in a speech Wednesday.

Albania, which became a NATO member in 2009, has joined the United States and the European Union in denouncing Russia’s war in Ukraine.

The Pashaliman base located under the Vlora Bay was built in the 1950s when the Soviet Union brought 12 submarines, making it the only naval base they had in the Mediterranean. Following the breakdown of Tirana-Moscow ties in 1961, the Pashaliman remained as a naval base sheltering four remaining submarines and other small military ships.

The base was looted, including material from the submarines, during the anarchic year of 1997 in Albania when Europe’s then-poorest population lost its life savings in failed pyramid investment schemes. Three of the submarines were sold for scrap while the fourth one remains, with the government considering whether to turn it into a museum.

Pashaliman was renovated by Turkey and since has been used as a naval base for some military ships patrolling the Ionian and Adriatic Seas.

NATO also has started work to upgrade Albania’s communist-era Kucove Air Base, 85 kilometers (53 miles) south of the capital Tirana, which will allow it to be used for alliance operations.

https://apnews.com/article/nato-edi-rama-albania-1e6bcb874e6bb439b2004140d6ffa1a8
 
Last edited:
Why is Erdogan blocking Sweden and Finland from joining NATO? You can read his explanation here, in an exclusive piece for the Economist

Well worth the read from the man himself.

https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/05/30/recep-tayyip-erdogan-on-nato-expansion

Bottom line is they harbor PKK terroists and refuse trade with Turkey.

PKK terrorists who killed like 10K turks (worse than 911 for them) and Turkey is invading their safe havens in Syria as we speak. NATO partners should not provide safe haven for PKK terrorists.
 
Last edited:
We don't care.
Because Finland since 1992 th did homework with a glance.
Unlike Turkey.
NATO countries might install troops in Finland without accept from all NATO countries and with a glance.
Unlike Turkey, Finland is more self sustained in food production, energetic field and resources usage field than even Germany, not alone to talk about Turkey and their demands...
 
Why Turkey's Erdogan is blocking NATO membership for Finland and Sweden
Melissa Rossi ·Contributor | Wed, June 22, 2022

c8224b50-f257-11ec-97f6-f31638559074

It was supposed to be a fait accompli. Three months after Russian President Vladimir Putin sent his forces into Ukraine, the governments of Finland and Sweden formally applied for NATO membership on May 18 as a hedge against future Russian military aggression.

President Biden immediately signaled his approval, saying that enlarging the alliance would “make NATO stronger,” and a month earlier Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a longtime Putin pal, told Finnish president Sauli Niinistö that he had no problem with the enlargement.

But Erdogan “can change 180 degrees in a second without looking back,” Turkish-born Cengiz Çandar, senior associate research fellow at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs, told Yahoo News. On May 19, Erdogan did just that, announcing that Turkey would block fast-track NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, which requires unanimous support from member states, over his contention that the two nations are “guesthouses for terrorist organizations.”

Former State Department diplomat Elizabeth Shackelford, now a senior fellow at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, told Yahoo News the move was “classic Erdogan,” adding that he “is not going to give up an opportunity to use leverage, and where better to do it than in an alliance that’s based on unanimity of decisions?”

Erdogan’s demands mostly center on extraditing Turkish foes, such as members of the militant, terrorist-labeled Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which Turkey has been fighting for 38 years, and followers of Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen, whom he alleges was behind a 2016 coup attempt to oust him. Finland extradited two of the 10 people on Turkey’s list and is reportedly evaluating seven more, while Sweden passed a new antiterrorism law. But Turkey still isn’t satisfied and has insisted on the extradition of others for crimes, including the public criticism of Erdogan.

“To fully try to meet all of Turkey’s demands, Sweden would have to turn itself into an alternative sort of authoritarian police state,” Paul Levin, director of Stockholm University’s Institute for Turkish Studies, told Yahoo News.

Finnish analysts share the sentiment. “Most of the demands are impossible to fulfill, such as extraditing a person just because he has used a Bylock [encrypted] application or has written a Facebook comment critical of President Erdogan,” Toni Alaranta, a senior research fellow at the Finnish Institute of International Affairs, told Balkan Insight.

“Many Kurds in Sweden are worried that Sweden is going to sacrifice them on the altar of NATO membership,” said Levin. While Stockholm plans to make concessions, he said, it’s a tightrope act. If leaders concede too much, “the Swedish government risks being accused of sacrificing long-held principles” such as support for the Kurdish cause and civil liberties “or just generally being seen as giving in to an authoritarian regime that’s making unacceptable demands — which, frankly, I think is the popular view here in Sweden."

So far, Turkey has lodged most of its criticism at Sweden, which has a larger, politically mobilized Kurdish population of 100,000, causing some Finns to question the wisdom of the decision for the two countries to apply jointly for NATO membership.

“It is entirely conceivable that Turkey could, for any number of reasons, say yes to Finland but no to Sweden for now,” Charly Salonius-Pasternak, senior researcher at the Finish Institute of International Affairs, told Euronews last week.

He clarified his position this week in an email to Yahoo News. “I haven’t said Finland should go it alone, rather, that it was not good — OK, potentially catastrophic — that the Finnish president said so clearly that we would [apply] hand in hand,” Salonius-Pasternak wrote. “I think it would be better for Finland and Sweden to join together, but giving this much leverage to everyone else seems a little short-sighted.”

If not for Turkey’s opposition, Finland and Sweden would be on a glide path to membership in the alliance at next week’s NATO summit in Madrid. Now it’s a guessing game as to whether Erdogan will ever be satisfied.

“There is concern about the dangerous gray zone period that we seem to be stuck in,” Levin said, noting that now Moscow knows their plans, but NATO’s Article 5 security guarantee — that an attack on one member is an attack on all — does not yet apply.

Former Defense Department official Evelyn Farkas, now executive director of the McCain Institute think tank, told Yahoo News that the delay poses a “real danger [that] puts the security of Europe and of millions of people at risk.”

By making Nordic leaders jump through hoops, Erdogan is doing Putin’s bidding, Çandar said.

“Recall when we first heard speculations about Swedish and Finnish applying to NATO, Putin was very menacing and threatening,” noted Çandar. “But since Erdogan stepped in, have you heard Putin speak about Swedish and Finnish inclusion to NATO? Erdogan is doing his job.”

But for all the attention given to Erdogan’s demands about alleged terrorists, other factors are at work, analysts say, including his anger over a fighter jet deal between the U.S. and Turkey that unraveled.

Turkey committed $1.4 billion to buy four high-tech F-35 jets. In 2019, however, disregarding warnings from U.S. officials, Erdogan purchased a Russian air defense system — and the Trump White House promptly refused to deliver the four planes or to return the $1.4 billion down payment. Turkey recently requested the money be applied to upgrading its F-16s, a move the Biden administration endorsed but thus far hasn’t received requisite congressional approval. Erdogan’s cause wasn’t helped when Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, another foe of Turkey, flew to Washington last month to make a high-profile plea to Congress not to approve Erdogan’s F-16 requests, and offered to take the four undelivered F-35s.

In response, Erdogan announced that “from now on, there is no one called Mitsotakis for me” and canceled bilateral talks with him.

Another of Erdogan’s apparent motivations for making a flap over NATO membership for Sweden and Finland, however, is domestic politics, said Çandar. Facing an election next year in a country where inflation is soaring, Erdogan’s popularity is plummeting.

“Official government figures put inflation at 70 percent,” said Çandar, who added it’s likely “closer to 100 percent.” By blocking Sweden and Finland’s entry, Erdogan has captured international attention. “Now everybody in the world speaks of Turkey’s conditions and Turkey’s security,” he said, adding that it’s a form of “image building” for Erdogan.

To be sure, there’s growing concern among NATO members about Erdogan’s continuing theatrics, Anna Wieslander, director for northern Europe at the Atlantic Council, told Yahoo News. The view among NATO members, she said, has always been “it’s better to have Turkey inside of NATO than outside of NATO because of its strategic value as the window to the Middle East.” But tensions between Turkey and the United States are increasing, she said, pointing to the soured F-35 deal and the fact that cleric Gulen is living in the U.S., which refuses to extradite him to Turkey. “The level of trust” between Washington and Ankara “is not really there,” all of which strains the alliance, she added.

Farkas suggested that NATO allies continue to work with Turkey to resolve the issue, but that they impose a deadline to coincide with next week’s summit.

“If the deadline passes and Turkey continues to block Sweden and Finland, then all of the concessions, including arm sales from the United States, should expire,” Farkas said. “That is likely the only way that we will get action on this — and it is in the interest of the international community that this membership be allowed to proceed.”

https://news.yahoo.com/why-turkeys-...bership-for-finland-and-sweden-204618584.html
 
Why is Erdogan blocking Sweden and Finland from joining NATO? You can read his explanation here, in an exclusive piece for the Economist

Well worth the read from the man himself.

https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/05/30/recep-tayyip-erdogan-on-nato-expansion

Bottom line is they harbor PKK terroists and refuse trade with Turkey.

PKK terrorists who killed like 10K turks (worse than 911 for them) and Turkey is invading their safe havens in Syria as we speak. NATO partners should not provide safe haven for PKK terrorists.

He did a 180 I guess. Wow.
 
He did a 180 I guess. Wow.

He/Turkey makes so many enemies

West hates him tried to regime change him in 2016
Russia hates him/Them
Kurds hate him/Them
Israel hates Turkey
Syria hates Turkey
Saudis dislike Turkey
EU and Germany dislike Turkey
Bulgaria hates Turkey
Greece Hates Turkey
Cyprus hates Turkey
 
He/Turkey makes so many enemies

West hates him tried to regime change him in 2016
Russia hates him/Them
Kurds hate him/Them
Israel hates Turkey
Syria hates Turkey
Saudis dislike Turkey
EU and Germany dislike Turkey
Bulgaria hates Turkey
Greece Hates Turkey
Cyprus hates Turkey

Do you hate him?

<30>

Edit: Do russians hate him?
 
He/Turkey makes so many enemies

West hates him tried to regime change him in 2016
Russia hates him/Them
Kurds hate him/Them
Israel hates Turkey
Syria hates Turkey
Saudis dislike Turkey
EU and Germany dislike Turkey
Bulgaria hates Turkey
Greece Hates Turkey
Cyprus hates Turkey

I don't hate Turkey.

But my hot take is that Thanksgiving food is pretty overrated.
 
Tukey gets everything she wanted. Say what you want about Erdogan, he's hell of a diplomat. Poor Kurds always get fucked lol

 
Back
Top