International [NATO News] Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would "put NATO at war with Russia"

[Rational Poster]

Don't be such a killjoy. We, as a country of 5.5m Finns, just bought 64 of your F35 jets for 10 billion dollars. We also mostly consume American media, we like American brands, we send our best ice hockey players to NHL, etc. Finland is more of a mini-America than most of EU countries, lol. Our military has had a conscription for decades, our war time troops consists of 280 000 finnish soldiers with a reserve of 900 000 military trained men. Most of our male population is spesifically trained to kill Russian soldiers with strategies and tactics designed to counter Russian military doctrine.

Finnish and Swedish military gear is some of the best in the world designed specifically for killing Russians on their own while outnumbered and outgunned.

Welcome to the winning team.

 

[Rational Poster]

I don't care about Finland. I'm talking about the US funding NATO.

Yeah but you're doing it in a thread about Finland, the only nation added to NATO since its inception that actually brings more to the table than it takes.

So you're not making much sense. Just some partisan thrashing and whining over good policy.

 

[GhostZ06]

I was thinking that, what are they scared of? Aren't Turkey part of NATO too?

Maybe they should invest a bit more in some modern train signalling systems...

Yeaahhh, but that doesn't stop Greece and turkey wanting to strangle each other. Also Turdagan isnt helping the Greco-turkish relations

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Congratulations Finland! Welcome aboard.

 

[Deleted member 449757]

Finland getting ready to serve cocktails for molotov again in case of conflict with the Russian Federation i see. Based.

 

[Yehudim]

Yeah but you're doing it in a thread about Finland, the only nation added to NATO since its inception that actually brings more to the table than it takes.

So you're not making much sense. Just some partisan thrashing and whining over good policy.

He literally said he doesn’t care. I wish more people were that honest, you don’t have to waste the few seconds it takes to make a post. Just keep it moving.

 

[Seano]

Yeah but you're doing it in a thread about Finland, the only nation added to NATO since its inception that actually brings more to the table than it takes.

So you're not making much sense. Just some partisan thrashing and whining over good policy.

In a thread about Finland joining nato, tard. Fuck off already.

 

[Rational Poster]

In a thread about Finland joining nato, tard. Fuck off already.

Yeah, I don't think you have any idea how NATO functions. NATO's common budget is funded equally by all parties based on their GDP.. US pays 3.1B. The horror. No member state has failed to pay into the common fund.

The failure has been on the national spend for defense for each country, which we would be spending with or without NATO. In reality without NATO we would be spending much more since we rely on our NATO allies for intelligence around the world. Not to mention the shared r&d.

And the nations that were behind on their spending commitments have been rapidly correcting that issue since the Ukraine war. Praise Putin for revitalizing NATO.

 

[Rider on the Storm]

Lol....fail

 

[Arkain2K]

In a thread about Finland joining nato, tard. Fuck off already.

Please do exactly that, since you clearly got absolutely nothing of value to contribute to this discussion.

Thanks.

 

[Arkain2K]

Finland joins NATO in major blow to Russia over Ukraine war
By LORNE COOK and MATTHEW LEE

BRUSSELS (AP) — Finland joined the NATO military alliance Tuesday, dealing a major blow to Russian President Vladimir Putin with a historic realignment of Europe’s post-Cold War security landscape triggered by Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

The Nordic country’s membership doubles Russia’s border with the world’s biggest security alliance. Finland had adopted neutrality after its defeat by the Soviets in World War II, but its leaders signaled they wanted to join NATO after Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine sent a shiver of fear through its neighbors.

“The era of nonalignment in our history has come to an end -– a new era begins,” President Sauli Niinistö said before his country’s blue-and-white flag was raised outside NATO headquarters. A short distance away, outside the security fence, a few dozen people wrapped in flags of their own chanted, “Ukraine needs NATO.”

In praising Finland’s membership, U.S. President Joe Biden noted it came on the 74th anniversary of the signing of NATO’s founding treaty on April 4, 1949.

“When Putin launched his brutal war of aggression against the people of Ukraine, he thought he could divide Europe and NATO. He was wrong,” Biden said in a statement. “Today, we are more united than ever. And together — strengthened by our newest ally, Finland — we will continue to preserve transatlantic security, defend every inch of NATO territory, and meet any and all challenges we face.”

The move is a strategic and political setback for Putin, who has long complained about NATO’s expansion toward Russia and partly used that as a justification for the invasion.

“I’m tempted to say this is maybe the one thing that we can thank Mr. Putin for because he once again here precipitated something he claims to want to prevent by Russia’s aggression, causing many countries to believe that they have to do more to look out for their own defense and to make sure that they can deter possible Russian aggression going forward,” U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said before accepting the documents that made Finland’s membership official.

The U.S. State Department is the repository of NATO texts concerning membership.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy sent his congratulations to Finland, writing on Telegram that “amid Russian aggression, the Alliance became the only effective guarantee of security in the region.”

Russia warned it would be forced to take “retaliatory measures” to address what it called security threats created by Finland’s membership. It had also warned it would bolster forces near Finland if NATO sends any additional troops or equipment to what is its 31st member country.

The alliance says it poses no threat to Moscow.

Alarmed by Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine last year, Finland, which shares a 1,340 kilometer (832 mile) border with Russia, applied to join in May, seeking protection under the organization’s security umbrella.

“Russia tried to create a sphere around them and, well, we are not a sphere. I’m sure that Finns themselves feel more secure, that we are living in a more stable world,” Niinisto said.

Neighboring Sweden, which has avoided military alliances for more than 200 years, has also applied. But objections from NATO members Turkey and Hungary have delayed the process.

Niinisto said Finland’s membership “is not complete without that of Sweden. The persistent efforts for a rapid Swedish membership continue.“ Finland even gave its ratification of Sweden’s application to Blinken as it joined.

In Stockholm, Swedish Defense Minister Pål Jonson congratulated Finland and said he believed it would improve Sweden’s security but added that “it’s no secret that we would like to have concluded it hand-in-hand.”

Earlier, Russia’s Foreign Ministry said Moscow “will be forced to take military-technical and other retaliatory measures to counter the threats to our national security arising from Finland’s accession to NATO.”

It said Finland’s move marks “a fundamental change in the situation in Northern Europe, which had previously been one of the most stable regions in the world.”

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Finland’s membership reflects the alliance’s anti-Russian course and warned that Moscow will respond depending on what weapons NATO allies place there. But he also sought to play down the impact, noting that Russia has no territorial disputes with Finland.

It’s not clear what additional military resources Russia could send to the Finnish border. Moscow has deployed the bulk of its most capable military units to Ukraine.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said no more troops would be sent to Finland unless it asked for help.

The country is now protected by what Stoltenberg called NATO’s “iron-clad security guarantee,” under which all member countries vow to come to the defense of any ally that comes under attack.

But Stoltenberg refused to rule out the possibility of holding more military exercises there and said that NATO would not allow Russia’s demands to dictate the organization’s decisions.

“We are constantly assessing our posture, our presence. We have more exercises, we have more presence, also in the Nordic area,” he said.

In 1939 and 1940, Finland’s tiny, ill-equipped forces fought in what became known as the Winter War against the Soviet Union. Over an exceptionally cold winter, Finnish fighters, sometimes cloaked in white bedsheets for camouflage and typically moving unseen on foot, snowshoes and skis, lost some territory to Moscow but forced out the invaders.

Finland says it can muster a 280,000-strong fighting force, built on near-universal male conscription and a large, well-trained reserve, equipped with modern artillery, warplanes and tanks. The country of 5.5 million joined the European Union in 1995,

Finland’s Parliament, meanwhile, said its website was hit with a so-called denial-of-service attack, which made the site hard to use, with many pages not loading and some functions not available.

A pro-Russian hacker group known as NoName057 (16) claimed responsibility, saying the attack was retaliation for Finland joining NATO. The claim could not be immediately verified.

The hacker group, which has reportedly acted on Moscow’s orders, has taken part in a slew of cyberattacks on the U.S. and its allies in the past. Finnish public broadcaster YLE said the same group hit the Parliament’s site last year.

https://apnews.com/article/nato-fin...-enlargement-c703d23a8423d89577d5b752d69d76eb

 

[Arkain2K]

Finland becomes 31st member of NATO in Brussels ceremony
Formal accession nearly doubles NATO border with Russia
By Jon Henley, Europe correspondent | April 4, 2023

The blue-and-white flag of Finland has been raised alongside those of its western partners outside Nato’s headquarters in Brussels after the Nordic country formally became the 31st member of the transatlantic defensive alliance.

Guests including the US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, and the Finnish president, foreign and defence ministers applauded and shouted “bravo” at the ceremony on Tuesday, which marked a historic realignment of Europe’s security landscape.

“It’s a great day for Finland and an important day for Nato,” said Finland’s president, Sauli Niinistö. “Russia tried to create a sphere around them and … we’re not a sphere. I’m sure Finns themselves feel more secure that we are living in a more stable world.”

Joe Biden warmly welcomed the completion of Finland’s accelerated accession process, saying Nato had shown itself more united than ever after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

“When Putin launched his brutal war of aggression, he thought he could divide Europe and Nato. He was wrong,” the US presidentsaid, adding that he also “looked forward to welcoming Sweden as a Nato member as soon as possible”.

“Together, strengthened by our newest ally, Finland, we will continue to preserve transatlantic security, defend every inch of Nato territory, and meet any and all challenges we face,” he said.

Sweden and Finland – which shares a 1,340km (830 mile) border with Russia – submitted simultaneous membership applications last May, abandoning decades of military nonalignment to seek security as Nato members after the Russian invasion.

While Turkey last week became the last Nato member to ratify Finland’s application, Turkey and Hungary continue to delay Sweden’s. Ankara accuses Stockholm of sheltering Kurdish militants, while Budapest has “grievances” about Swedish criticism of the rule of law in Hungary.

Niinistö said Finland’s membership “is not complete without that of Sweden” and that “persistent efforts for a rapid Swedish membership continue”. Stockholm has said it is not sure it will be able to join before a planned Nato summit in July.

Ukraine’s president also congratulated Finland. “Amid Russian aggression, the alliance became the only effective guarantee of security in the region,” Volodymyr Zelenskiy said, noting that Finland had joined on the 74th anniversary of Nato’s founding.

Finland formally became a member of the world’s largest military alliance shortly before the ceremony, when foreign minister Pekka Haavisto handed over his country’s accession documents to Blinken, the official keeper of the Nato treaty.

“With receipt of this instrument of accession, we can now declare that Finland is the 31st member of the North Atlantic Treaty,” Blinken said. Nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said: “We welcome Finland to the alliance.”

Finland “now has the strongest friends and allies in the world”, Stoltenberg said, adding before the ceremony: “Finland today, and soon also Sweden, will become a full-fledged member of the alliance.”

“President Putin had as a declared goal of the invasion of Ukraine to get less Nato,” Stoltenberg said. “He is getting exactly the opposite.” Blinken echoed the sentiment, saying Putin had “once again precipitated something he claims to want to prevent”.

Nato’s border with Russia will roughly double with the accession of Finland in a strategic and political setback for Putin, who has long complained about Nato’s expansion towards Russia and partly used it as a justification for the invasion.

The Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said on Tuesday that Nato’s embrace of Finland was an “encroachment on our security and on Russia’s national interests”, adding that Moscow would watch closely for any Nato military deployments there.

“The Russian Federation will be forced to take military-technical and other retaliatory measures to counter the threats to our national security arising from Finland’s accession to Nato,” the foreign ministry said.

The ministry added that the development marked “a fundamental change in the situation in northern Europe, which had previously been one of the most stable regions in the world”. Russia said on Monday it would bolster its military capacity in its western and northwestern regions in response to Finland’s accession.

Stoltenberg played down Putin’s threat last month to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus, saying on Tuesday that Nato had “not seen any changes in Russia’s nuclear posture that require any changes in our posture – but we will remain vigilant”.

Joining Nato means Finland falls under the alliance’s article 5, a collective defence pledge that stipulates that an attack on one Nato member “shall be considered an attack against them all”.

The country also brings a potent military force into the alliance, with a wartime strength of 280,000 and one of Europe’s largest artillery arsenals. Finland is one of few European countries to have maintained a conscription army – and its forces are trained and equipped with the primary aim of repelling an eventual Russian invasion.

Finland’s accession falls on the 74th anniversary of the signing of Nato’s founding Washington Treaty on 4 April 1949.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/04/finland-nato-member-brussels-ceremony

 

[Limbo Pete]

Finland joins NATO in major blow to Russia over Ukraine war
By LORNE COOK and MATTHEW LEE





https://apnews.com/article/nato-fin...-enlargement-c703d23a8423d89577d5b752d69d76eb

And just like that, Vladimir Putin, oh he of the great NATO expansion rhetoric, manages to double his border with them.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Well done Putin, ya dick head.

 

[Arkain2K]

Sauli Niinistö, the president of Finland, has spoken at a news conference with NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg in Brussels.

Mr Stoltenberg welcomed Finland to the military alliance by referring to the Ukraine war, saying: "At times like this, friends and allies are more important than ever."

He added that "President Putin wanted to slam NATO's door shut" but that "today we showed the world that he failed - that aggression and intimidation do not work".

 

[Metusalemi]

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Welcome Finland

 

[Arkain2K]

NATO Member Finland Picks Rafael for Air Defense System
By Kati Pohjanpalo and Leo Laikola | April 5, 2023

Finland selected Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd to provide an air-defense system that will plug a hole in the weaponry of NATO’s newest member at the cost of €316 million ($346 million).

A neighbor to Russia with a 1,300-kilometer (800-mile) border, the Nordic country is currently missing high-altitude interception capability after decommissioning the BUK system acquired decades ago from the Soviet Union.

Finland announced the purchase a day after completing its accession to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and just a day before its government is due to resign following elections. Joining the military alliance followed a U-turn in public opinion after Russia’s decision to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine about a year ago. That war also increased the urgency of the procurement.

Finland can already defend itself against missiles with a relatively low-altitude NASAMS system as well as projectiles launched by its Hornet F/A-18 fighter jets. Ordering the ground-based David’s Sling system will “significantly” extend the operational range of its air-defense capabilities, according to a statement from Finland’s Ministry of Defense on Wednesday.

The minimum flight altitude requirement of the system was set at 15,000 meters (49,000 feet) in the request for quotation.

“This acquisition will create a new capability for the Finnish Defense Forces to intercept targets at high altitude, Defense Minister Antti Kaikkonen said.

The deal comes on top of other major defense expenditure, including a €10 billion procurement in late 2021 of F-35A fighter jets from Lockheed Martin Corp. to replace the aging Hornets. It’s also building new vessels for the navy suitable for patrolling the shallow archipelago of its coasts.

The purchase consists of a main contract worth about €213 million as well as the immediate exercise of options worth €103 million, and additionally further options worth €216 million, the ministry said. The transaction will require a sales release by the US government.

The project started in late 2020 when requests for tenders were sent to five companies, including in Germany, Norway and the UK. In the final phase, the choice was between Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd and Rafael. IAI offered its BARAK-MX system with LRAD ER missile and ELTA radar, while Rafael had proposed David’s Sling system with STUNNER missile and ELTA radar.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-05/nato-member-finland-picks-rafael-for-air-defense-system

 

[Arkain2K]

NATO just got hundreds of tanks, 62 fighter jets, and a whole lot of artillery after Finland joined the military alliance
By Sinéad Baker |Apr 5, 2023

Finland is now a member of NATO, giving the alliance a new military partner that has hundreds of tanks and jets, and a history of fighting Russia.

Finland officially became a member of the military alliance on Tuesday, strongly motivated by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The move more than doubled Russia's direct border with NATO countries.

This proximity, and Finland's own history of fighting Russia, has been a big factor in how Finland has developed its military, and in the size of the arsenal that it now brings to the alliance.

That arsenal includes around 650 tanks, Reuters reported.

The International Institute for Strategic Studies said in its latest assessment that Finland has at least 800 armored vehicles, including 200 tanks.

It also has 107 combat-capable jets, according to the latest assessment by the IISS, including 62 fighter jets.

Finland claims to have what it calls "Western Europe's strongest artillery," made up of around 1,500 weapons that include 700 howitzers and cannon, 700 mortars and around 100 rocket launchers, according to Reuters.

The country has dozens of training aircraft and surveillance radars, at least 650 anti-aircraft missiles, an undisclosed number of drones, anti-aircraft cannon and tanks, multiple types of vessels for its navy, and lots of transport vehicles, along with other equipment, Reuters reported.

Finland is also currently boosting its weapons stocks, by adding more missiles, a new anti-aircraft system, and more drones, Reuters reported.

Every Finnish person aged between 18 and 60 is also liable for military service, as the country's constitution says that every citizen is obligated to participate in its national defence.

Finland says it trains around 21,000 new conscripts every year.

And the country has a wartime fighting reserve force of 280,000 soldiers, and almost 900,000 people that can be mobilized, according to Reuters.

Finland said even before it joined the alliance that its defense forces "already meet NATO's military criteria: we have a strong national defence of our own and are adapted with the armed forces of different NATO countries."

Finland becoming part of NATO is seen as a nightmare for Russia, which considers the alliance a key threat.

Russian President Vladimir Putin partly justified his invasion of Ukraine by saying that he wanted to stop NATO expanding eastwards, but instead his invasion prompted Finland to abandon decades of neutrality to seek NATO membership.

Alexander Stubb, Finland's former prime minister, told Axios that Russia's threats over it joining NATO can be dismissed due to the strength of Finland's military.

"When you have military like ours, you really don't have that much to worry about," he said. "And Russia knows that."

https://www.businessinsider.com/fin...ghter-jets-hundreds-of-tanks-artillery-2023-4

 

[Arkain2K]

Factbox: What can Finland's armed forces and arsenal offer NATO?
By Anne Kauranen | April 4, 2023



HELSINKI, April 4 (Reuters) - Finland joined NATO on Tuesday, bringing the Western defence alliance significant military capabilities developed over the years.

Finland is one of few European countries to have retained a conscription army through decades of peace, wary of its eastern neighbour Russia after the former Soviet Union tried to invade Finland during World War Two.

Finland's ground, naval and air forces are all trained and equipped with one primary aim - to repel any Russian invasion.

GROUND FORCE

Finland trains some 21,000 new conscripts every year, who then become part of its war-time reserve of 280,000 soldiers of whom some 10,000 a year are called up rotationally to refresher courses.

Some 870,000 Finns aged between 17 and 60 are liable for service in case of need. The contract staff consist of 12,000 people, 8,000 of them military personnel.

The Ground Force is equipped with some 650 tanks, around 200 of them being German-made Leopards types 2A6 and 2A4.

Finland has what it calls "Western Europe's strongest artillery" that includes some 1,500 weapons: about 700 howitzers and cannon, 700 mortars and about 100 heavy and light rocket launchers.

It is also introducing an Israeli-made ELTA counter-battery radar system which provides it with the ability to locate and track incoming rockets, artillery shells and mortar fire.

Finland's anti-aircraft equipment consists of at least 650 missiles but it is in the process of buying more from Swedish Saab Dynamics and Rafael Advanced Defense Systems.

Its most important anti-aircraft system is the NATO-compatible Norwegian-American NASAMS 2. It has also anti-aircraft cannon and tanks designed for the same purpose.

It is in the final stages of a tendering process for a new high-altitude anti-aircraft system which it will buy either from Israel Aerospace Industries or Rafael Advanced Systems.

Finland has an undisclosed number of unarmed Orbiter drones and is in the process of purchasing 1,000-2,000 more, including hundreds of Parrot Anafi USA drones, similar to those used by the U.S. army.

The infantry holds enough firearms - assault rifles, machine guns, grenade launchers and anti-tank weapons - for the entire reserve, but also all necessary gear for fighting in harsh winter conditions as well as night vision systems and gas masks.

Finland destroyed some 1.3 million anti-personnel mines after it joined the Ottawa mine ban convention back in 2012 but has since replaced that capability with remote-controlled smart mines and area denial systems.

The military holds an extensive range of transport vehicles, with wheels and caterpillar bands, both for men and equipment.

AIR FORCE

The Finnish Air Force has a fleet of 61 McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet fighter jets, which are being replaced by 64 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II jets, the delivery of which will begin in 2026.

In addition to the jet fleet, the Air Force has dozens of training aircraft and surveillance radars, including ones that have a range of almost 500 km (300 miles).

NAVAL FORCE

The Finnish Navy has four command vessels, five minelayers, eight missile craft, three mine countermeasure vessels, 13 mine sweepers, in addition to smaller landing craft.

It is acquiring three new multi-role corvettes for surface combat which are currently under construction in Finland to enter service by 2029.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-can-finlands-armed-forces-arsenal-offer-nato-2023-04-04/