My 2 y.o. niece sees ghosts

[cartizel]

Did you tell the whole theater about it at the time?

LOL I see what you did there

 

[Guestx]

People don't like things outside of their comfort zone. It's funny i was simultaneously having almost the exact opposite conversation about religion in the wr. Religion honestly sounds nice, but I don't see any proof there. If you look at life from a scientific perspective, it's mostly cold and brutal.

You're right that PROOF does not exist for religion. There is nothing to point to to show that it's undeniably true. But I do think there is some interesting EVIDENCE, which suggests that it could be true. Those who say there's no evidence simply haven't taken the time to really study the subject.

For me, my biggest arguments against Christianity are philosophical. While some of the teachings make a lot of sense, some make none at all.

 

[dije1]

Spoiler

 

[Mike]

You're right that PROOF does not exist for religion. There is nothing to point to to show that it's undeniably true. But I do think there is some interesting EVIDENCE, which suggests that it could be true. Those who say there's no evidence simply haven't taken the time to really study the subject.

For me, my biggest arguments against Christianity are philosophical. While some of the teachings make a lot of sense, some make none at all.

I've heard there's evidence but every time I've asked for it I'm just given some dudes opinion or feelings about it.

Meanwhile people say oh the.bible, but everything in there that's actually measurable with science has been proven false, even the origin of our species.

 

[Swoliosis]

I've had similar stories in my family with cousins when they were toddlers saying they could see and talk with dead relatives.

 

[Guestx]

I've heard there's evidence but every time I've asked for it I'm just given some dudes opinion or feelings about it.

Meanwhile people say oh the.bible, but everything in there that's actually measurable with science has been proven false, even the origin of our species.

In my experience, the people who say "where's the evidence?" don't actually go very far looking for any. And when any is presented, they immediately try to shoot it down or blow it off, much like we've talked about in this thread about certain people's attitude toward the supernatural.

If you're actually interested in understanding WHY some Christians believe what they believe, and understanding why people like myself who, despite not being Christian, feel that Christian faith can be reasonable, here's where I'd start:


From a Philosophical Perspective: Mere Christianity by CS Lewis

CS Lewis is best known as the author of The Chronicles of Narnia (and, as an aside, was good friends with JRR Tolkein), but beyond that he is also one of Christianity's best known apologists. He was an atheist who became a Christian after becoming convinced it was true. He called himself, during the first year of his conversion, "the unhappiest Christian in all of England" because he didn't WANT to be a Christian but converted anyway because he felt he couldn't deny the arguments for it.

Mere Christianity doesn't go into "hard evidence" but instead focuses on philosophical and logical arguments. It's an easy and enlightening read, as well as being a literary classic.

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From a Scientific Perspective: The Language of God by Francis Collins

Collins is an intellectual monster. His accolades are too many to list, but a few include the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the National Medal of Science. He is best known for heading up the Human Genome Project, which mapped the human genome for the first time, in 2003. As with Lewis, he was an adult convert to Christianity and he wrote The Language of God because he wanted to show that "one can be intellectually in a rigorous position and argue that science and faith can be compatible." If you want to go deep into theistic evidence from a scientific perspective, this is a good book for that.

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From a Journalistic Perspective: The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel

Lee Strobel gets a lot of shit sometimes, but I think it's mostly unwarranted. Just like with Lewis and Collins, Strobel started out a skeptic and became a believer later on. He approaches the subject as a journalist: Instead of presenting evidence from his own expertise, he interviews experts in various fields, including history, archaeology, textual criticism, etc, and allows them to present the case while he records it. This is a good all-around overview of the subject.

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[Mike]

Thanks any cliffs on particular arguments they made that you found interesting? Hard to say when or if I'll have time to read all of that.

 

[Guestx]

Thanks any cliffs on particular arguments they made that you found interesting? Hard to say when or if I'll have time to read all of that.

Not to pick on you, but no one who says "where's the evidence?" ever actually seems to have the time to read anything. They have the time to debate endlessly on the Internet, but just can't seem to get a few minutes to open a book. It's weird.

Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of CARM because of their inflexible attitude toward Christian doctrine and scriptural interpretation, but they do have some good material on their website. So you may want to check out this page. Just click on some of the stuff that seems most interesting to you.

https://carm.org/evidence-and-answers

 

[Mike]

Not to pick on you, but no one who says "where's the evidence?" ever actually seems to have the time to read anything. They have the time to debate endlessly on the Internet, but just can't seem to get a few minutes to open a book. It's weird.

Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of CARM because of their inflexible attitude toward Christian doctrine and scriptural interpretation, but they do have some good material on their website. So you may want to check out this page. Just click on some of the stuff that seems most interesting to you.

https://carm.org/evidence-and-answers

Well I do read a lot of stuff and try to read what info I can covering both sides of an issue, I don't realistically have time to read several books right now. I mean I have a backlog of books I bought purely for entertainment that I haven't read yet.


I spend a lot of my free time studying, in classes, or on my way to and from classes. When I do have free time I'm typically here or doing something else I enjoy.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Your niece needs to go upstate to get her head together.

 

[Guestx]

Well I do read a lot of stuff and try to read what info I can covering both sides of an issue, I don't realistically have time to read several books right now. I mean I have a backlog of books I bought purely for entertainment that I haven't read yet.

I spend a lot of my free time studying, in classes, or on my way to and from classes. When I do have free time I'm typically here or doing something else I enjoy.

I actually find studying this stuff very entertaining for a variety of reasons. Maybe start with Mere Christianity. It's short and breezy. You may even find yourself enjoying it.

But like I said, you can find some interesting stuff in that CARM link, at least enough to give you an idea about how seriously this kind of shit is taken from a scholarly perspective.