Crime Must read on mass shootings. Real clear politics speaks some truth

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I don´t know or care about the "leftist narrative". I am not a leftist.

Yeah Sweden has a problem. We were discussing the entirety of western Europe here. You found 1 highly publicized incident from Sweden. I thought this was happening on such a massive scale that the stats got skewed against The US??? It´s not like the US doesn´t have a problem with unreported rapes (Military, black community, colleges)


I find it increasingly hard to find an actual point in your posts. It seems that what you really want is to just point the finger somewhere else and say "see they are just as bad, we don´t have a problem and their roblems would have been solved with more guns".. You continually move the goal posts. From intentional homicide rate, to rape to gun legislation.

You first tried to go the "well what about total homicide rate and other countries" route.. When that didn´t work out you started with the "yeah well they have rapes" thing. When that didn´t work out you went to ?????????????????? Trying to make some correlation between rape and gun laws. That make no sense and backfired as well.

It seems what you really want is a first world democracy with extremely strict gun laws that has; Higher crime and murder rates than the US. So you can say "SEEEEE thats what happens when you don´t have guns"..

Are you trying to say that the US gun laws have a positive impact in these instances vs the gun laws in Europe having a negative impact? That the solution is US gun laws in Europe? Because the facts pretty much indicate the opposite.

The US has more intentional homicides, more gun related homicides than EU countries (western EU) and more rapes than all but 2 countries (western EU).. So it really doesn´t seem having more guns is a positive in this case

I don´t have the solution. The US situation is rather unique and will require a unique solution (if anyone actually wants to solve it).. You can´t just look at another country and say "well their gun laws work, let´s do that here" since most other countries don´t have such a large amount of guns already in circulation.
That´s why I don´t like to compare the 2 in this regard. No Euro gun laws are going to work in the US and I sure as fuck wouldn´t want US gun laws here.

However a good start might be

1. Admit that there is a big fucking problem.

2. Decide on a national level that something has to be done

What is your solution? Seems you offer nothing but strawmen and whataboutisms (bad ones)... While I strongly disagree I have much more respect for someone like @Yorkist just being honest and saying that there is a price for the right to bear arms and he is willing to pay it. BOOM. No dancing around the problem with a bunch of irrelevant whataboutisms.

Another poster posted a very interesting article a few days ago. It would seem access to guns is only part of the problem.

All these shooters experienced trauma as kids, were going through a personal crisis at the time of shooting and became obsessed with mass shootings in the media.

They often get access to guns through a careless family member.

So as much as we all love the lone gunman angle, it's usually the whole family that fucks up and allows this to happen.

A lot of these guys look for help before they carry out their attacks and are met with nothing from their friends and families.

It was a good article, I PM'd it to you, you should read it.

 

[Whippy McGee]

I am always surprised this site's staff is not concerned about copyright laws. Most forums only allow 3-4 paragraphs from an original piece. Did the OP write all that, because I too am TL;DR.

 

[Prutfis]

Another poster posted a very interesting article a few days ago. It would seem access to guns is only part of the problem.

All these shooters experienced trauma as kids, were going through a personal crisis at the time of shooting and became obsessed with mass shootings in the media.

They often get access to guns through a careless family member.

So as much as we all love the lone gunman angle, it's usually the whole family that fucks up and allows this to happen.

A lot of these guys look for help before they carry out their attacks and are met with nothing from their friends and families.

It was a good article, I PM'd it to you, you should read it.

Thanks I'll have a look.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Since we are dropping "truth" in this thread....

 

[Prutfis]

We’re trying to determine the number of these mass shootings comparing the us to Western Europe since the person I was talking to was speaking in raw totals. Western Europe has roughly the same population as the us, so if you take that total and compare it you have a decent comparison. The response I got was the terror attacks total, which is also not the same number as the number cited for the us.


So I am willing to bet the total and rate are higher in the us. As long as we keep making these people famous it’ll keep happening. For fuck sake they even have psychology experts on saying that on their network and then ducking air the persons name, manifesto, etc. same hour even.

I already posted.

255 in the US this year alone.

26 in western Europe since 2010

 

[The Merchant]

We’re trying to determine the number of these mass shootings comparing the us to Western Europe since the person I was talking to was speaking in raw totals. Western Europe has roughly the same population as the us, so if you take that total and compare it you have a decent comparison. The response I got was the terror attacks total, which is also not the same number as the number cited for the us.


So I am willing to bet the total and rate are higher in the us. As long as we keep making these people famous it’ll keep happening. For fuck sake they even have psychology experts on saying that on their network and then ducking air the persons name, manifesto, etc. same hour even.

Yeah i dont understand why it's sensationalised the way it is, do they want copy-cat cases?

 

[cincymma79]

I already posted.

255 in the US this year alone.

26 in western Europe since 2010

These aren’t the same numbers either

 

[cincymma79]

Yeah i dont understand why it's sensationalised the way it is, do they want copy-cat cases?

Yes
Yes they do
Ratings

 

[Prutfis]

These aren’t the same numbers either

Those are the numbers i posted, with links.

255 this year alone in the US. From 2011 to 2014 a mass shooting every 64 days on average.

Western Europe has had 26 since 2010.

It's not even close.

 

[cincymma79]

Those are the numbers i posted, with links.

255 this year alone in the US. From 2011 to 2014 a mass shooting every 64 days on average.

Western Europe has had 26 since 2010.

It's not even close.

The numbers are not calculated the same way

 

[TheSlothMan]

Since we are dropping "truth" in this thread....

That's racist

 

[My Spot]

Those are the numbers i posted, with links.

255 this year alone in the US. From 2011 to 2014 a mass shooting every 64 days on average.

Western Europe has had 26 since 2010.

It's not even close.

But using your definition of a mass shooting (Mass Shooting Tracker) destroys your narrative of most shooters being evil whitey. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Prutfis]

The numbers are not calculated the same way

Dodge noted. Doesn't matter since its not even in the same ball park. It's not even the same fucking sport.

 

[Prutfis]

But using your definition of a mass shooting (Mass Shooting Tracker) destroys your narrative of most shooters being evil whitey. Can't have it both ways.

Ehh what? I never discussed any kind of race. What the hell are you talking about? We're discussing number of mass shootings in USA vs western Europe.

 

[My Spot]

Ehh what? I never discussed any kind of race. What the hell are you talking about? We're discussing number of mass shootings in USA vs western Europe.

We're just wondering why you're ignoring the FBI and NIJ definition for some mysterious reason.

 

[Stoic1]

The problem is clearly guns. We need to ban all guns and seize the remaining guns out there. Maybe offer a reward for those who turn their guns in voluntarily.

I'm sorry, but desperate times call for desperate measures. How long will we let kids continue to die? We need to take the guns

I totally agree.

I think we can do more if we really take the problem seriously.

Ban all tobacco products because heart disease and preventable cancer is entirely within our reach. Ban all alcohol too - so many DUI related deaths can be prevented.

Think of the children!

 

[Prutfis]

We're just wondering why you're ignoring the FBI and NIJ definition for some mysterious reason.

Fine use that. The numbers are still not even remotely close if you compare the US and western Europe.

Race bait somewhere else.

 

[My Spot]

Fine use that. The numbers are still not even remotely close if you compare the US and western Europe.

Race bait somewhere else.

lol
10 is just a bit different from 250+, Mr Race Baiter.

 

[cincymma79]

Dodge noted. Doesn't matter since its not even in the same ball park. It's not even the same fucking sport.

ITs not a dodge. It’s not the same value used in both but as I said already, I’d still venture the number is higher here.

 

[Prutfis]

lol
10 is just a bit different from 250+, Mr Race Baiter.

It's actually being pretty widely reported. Outside the US as well. Altering the definition of a mass shooting still doesn't make the rest not shot. But you seem more concerned with the race of the shooters than the number of shooters.