Crime Must read on mass shootings. Real clear politics speaks some truth

[thehighking]

The level of corruption and state sponsored violence in those countries is going to skew those numbers.

Putin had one of the members of the opposition party gunned down in the streets (not to mention poisoning several ex-spies). Duerte has his own execution squads and gave the green-light to cops and soldiers to kill criminals with impunity.

Sorry but USA is as corrupt as any country in the world. The country is literally run by mega tech corporations, Israeli billionaires, oil barons and weapons manufacturers

 

[Prutfis]

I read the entire OP, and one question I was hoping would be asked is 'Why doesn't it compare America's total murder numbers to the world's murder numbers?'

Yeah, we have most of the mass shootings, and they get ALL the media attention. But what about the total murders?

Leave out the suicides and justifiable shootings commonly added into 'gun deaths,' and add in stabbings, beatings, and strangulation - All the murders, specifically, and add them up and compare them to the overall homicide rates?

Yes, I'm sure America's rate will be higher than the average, but I wouldn't be surprised if its lower than some countries with strict firearm laws, preventing the ownership of any firearm for citizens.


And what exactly would the proposed solution be? Ban assault rifles?

Its amazing to me how so many forget that until 2015, the mass shooting with the highest number of homicides was Virginia Tech in '08. The shooter used two handguns.

But lets just ignore that fact and so with banning assault rifles. Does anyone remember the last time an assault rifle ban happened? That's right 1994-2004. And what happened in 1999? Columbine.

Those two punks used an arsenal of handguns, shotguns, and assault rifles during that rampage. The ban did not prevent that massacre. Therefore, with 100 million AR15s already in America, a new ban would have zero effect to prevent the next massacre.

So, I could rant on for another few pages about the supposed 'causes' of mass shootings, but is there a proposed solution besides 'ban firearms, require everyone to turn in their guns?'

The supposed war zone caliphate of swedistan has 1/5th the intentional homicide rate of the US. Belgium is one of the highest in western Europe at 1/3rd of the US

 

[GearSolidMetal]

The supposed war zone caliphate of swedistan has 1/5th the intentional homicide rate of the US. Belgium is one of the highest in western Europe at 1/3rd of the US

Yeah, but what's their rape rate now?

Oh wait, they've stopped reporting those to the public.

Bet those women wish they had a gun at the time. But no, guns are bad.

 

[Prutfis]

Yeah, but what's their rape rate now?

Oh wait, they've stopped reporting those to the public.

Bet those women wish they had a gun at the time. But no, guns are bad.

Only Belgium and Sweden (in western Europe) above the US, so i´m guessing the total average of western EU is probably lower than the US.

If only there had been guns they could have avoided being raped by being murdered instead

 

[tonni]

Yeah, but what's their rape rate now?

Oh wait, they've stopped reporting those to the public.

Bet those women wish they had a gun at the time. But no, guns are bad.

The vast majority of rapes are committed by people the victim knows.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

If only there had been guns they could have avoided being raped by being murdered instead

If they're rape victims, they were completely at the mercy of their rapists.

It doesn't take a gun to kill somebody.

I know amidst this debate about gun violence its hard to remember that.

 

[Prutfis]

If they're rape victims, they were completely at the mercy of their rapists.

It doesn't take a gun to kill somebody.

I know amidst this debate about gun violence its hard to remember that.

You really want those goal posts moved don´t you?

How are guns helping those US rape victims again? The US has higher numbers of rape than all but 2 countries in Western Europe. Many times the murder rate.

 

[The Merchant]

As sad as mass shootings are, they are a statistical anomaly and a small price to pay for the right to bear arms.

No bother Albright

 

[GearSolidMetal]

You really want those goal posts moved don´t you?

Its relevant because the presence of a gun doesn't always result in violence. When its in the hand of an innocent when the aggressor... well, the chance of the innocent being victimized is drastically lowered.

How are guns helping those US rape victims again? The US has higher numbers of rape than all but 2 countries in Western Europe. Many times the murder rate.

Yeah, because the victims that do report the rapes are not reported by the police to the statistics.

As for the US rape victims, don't you wish they had a gun beforehand?

 

[Prutfis]

Its relevant because the presence of a gun doesn't always result in violence. When its in the hand of an innocent when the aggressor... well, the chance of the innocent being victimized is drastically lowered.


Yeah, because the victims that do report the rapes are not reported by the police to the statistics.

As for the US rape victims, don't you wish they had a gun beforehand?

This thread is about guns and gun violence.

I wouldn't mind a source for your BS claims about rape reporting in western Europe. Since you insist on continually moving the goal posts when your narrative gets shot down.

Gun violence and mass shootings are much lower I eu

Yeah but what about the rapes

Also lower in all but 2 countries

Yeah yeah but something nonsensical about the victims and guns


Dafuk???

 

[Renard]

Based on what stat? What are you quoting

It's not hard to google gun homicides per capita

 

[cincymma79]

It's not hard to google gun homicides per capita

Not the numbers we’re talking about

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I wouldn't mind a source for your BS claims about rape reporting in western Europe. Since you insist on continually moving the goal posts when your narrative gets shot down.

And no, its not changing the subject because the leftist narrative is adding new gun laws for innocent law abiding citizens to acquire guns.

This thread is about guns and gun violence.

Oh? Can't handle the discussion of the 'unforseen negative consequences' of additional gun laws?

Gun violence and mass shootings are much lower I e

So..... with 300 million legally owned firearms in the country, and an untold number of illegal firearms in the hands of criminals, what are you specifically proposing that will guarantee lower the number of homicides across the country?

 

[Prutfis]

And no, its not changing the subject because the leftist narrative is adding new gun laws for innocent law abiding citizens to acquire guns.



Oh? Can't handle the discussion of the 'unforseen negative consequences' of additional gun laws?



So..... with 300 million legally owned firearms in the country, and an untold number of illegal firearms in the hands of criminals, what are you specifically proposing that will guarantee lower the number of homicides across the country?

I don´t know or care about the "leftist narrative". I am not a leftist.

Yeah Sweden has a problem. We were discussing the entirety of western Europe here. You found 1 highly publicized incident from Sweden. I thought this was happening on such a massive scale that the stats got skewed against The US??? It´s not like the US doesn´t have a problem with unreported rapes (Military, black community, colleges)


I find it increasingly hard to find an actual point in your posts. It seems that what you really want is to just point the finger somewhere else and say "see they are just as bad, we don´t have a problem and their roblems would have been solved with more guns".. You continually move the goal posts. From intentional homicide rate, to rape to gun legislation.

You first tried to go the "well what about total homicide rate and other countries" route.. When that didn´t work out you started with the "yeah well they have rapes" thing. When that didn´t work out you went to ?????????????????? Trying to make some correlation between rape and gun laws. That make no sense and backfired as well.

It seems what you really want is a first world democracy with extremely strict gun laws that has; Higher crime and murder rates than the US. So you can say "SEEEEE thats what happens when you don´t have guns"..

Are you trying to say that the US gun laws have a positive impact in these instances vs the gun laws in Europe having a negative impact? That the solution is US gun laws in Europe? Because the facts pretty much indicate the opposite.

The US has more intentional homicides, more gun related homicides than EU countries (western EU) and more rapes than all but 2 countries (western EU).. So it really doesn´t seem having more guns is a positive in this case

I don´t have the solution. The US situation is rather unique and will require a unique solution (if anyone actually wants to solve it).. You can´t just look at another country and say "well their gun laws work, let´s do that here" since most other countries don´t have such a large amount of guns already in circulation.
That´s why I don´t like to compare the 2 in this regard. No Euro gun laws are going to work in the US and I sure as fuck wouldn´t want US gun laws here.

However a good start might be

1. Admit that there is a big fucking problem.

2. Decide on a national level that something has to be done

What is your solution? Seems you offer nothing but strawmen and whataboutisms (bad ones)... While I strongly disagree I have much more respect for someone like @Yorkist just being honest and saying that there is a price for the right to bear arms and he is willing to pay it. BOOM. No dancing around the problem with a bunch of irrelevant whataboutisms.

 

[Renard]

Not the numbers we’re talking about

In the US mass shooting victims represent around 0.15% of all gun homicide victims. You're making the classic mistake of thinking that mass shootings matter because they receive a lot of media attention; they really don't.

 

[cincymma79]

In the US mass shooting victims represent around 0.15% of all gun homicide victims. You're making the classic mistake of thinking that mass shootings matter because they receive a lot of media attention; they really don't.

Not the numbers we’re talking about

 

[Clear Winner]

Show me stabbing, physical assault and other statistics. Can’t fault US citizens for being able to afford Guns ffs

https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-crime-claim-how-do-the-us-and-uk-compare-

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.

There are tables in there too.

 

[The Merchant]

Not the numbers we’re talking about

Not the numbers we’re talking about

Cite the numbers then. That's how debate works.

 

[cincymma79]

Cite the numbers then. That's how debate works.

We’re trying to determine the number of these mass shootings comparing the us to Western Europe since the person I was talking to was speaking in raw totals. Western Europe has roughly the same population as the us, so if you take that total and compare it you have a decent comparison. The response I got was the terror attacks total, which is also not the same number as the number cited for the us.


So I am willing to bet the total and rate are higher in the us. As long as we keep making these people famous it’ll keep happening. For fuck sake they even have psychology experts on saying that on their network and then ducking air the persons name, manifesto, etc. same hour even.

 

[Not A Theist]

It's not hard to google gun homicides per capita

Aside from the obvious point made here, what's going on in the Czech Republic?