Social Muslim call to prayer echoes out in Minn

[tonni]

Calls to prayer are pointless though, everyone can set an alarm.

 

[nac386]

He's not entirely wrong tbh. Of course no one really promotes Islam as like a replacement for Christianity the way he's implying but there is indeed a certain kind of left liberal that promotes a vague idea of "diversity" and part of that idea of "diversity" is a kind of patronizing deference to minority, preferable "Eastern", religions like Islam and Buddhism. Elizabeth Fox Genovese describes it well in this article on her conversion to Catholicism. I was going to recommend it to @Devout Pessimist, seems right up his alley(she was a lifelong feminist who converted to Catholicism late in life because of the issue of abortion).

I don't do this type of stretching. "He's not entirely wrong if you ignore a key part of his argument," is a stretch that I'm not willing to make.

Promoting diversity of all sorts is not in any way the same as saying, "People condemn Christianity but promote Islam." It's a twisting of reality that goes so far that it becomes a fabrication. It's like a meme that falls apart under the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Of course not every left liberal is the same and necessarily likes Islam; Sam Harris is anti-Christianity and anti-Islam but promotes Buddhism. But there are many of them. Notice that these left liberals will often use some smiling hijabi girl as the representative of Islam in their diversity rainbow in contrast to the way right wingers represent Islam with angry bearded men for the opposite purpose.

What does it even mean to "like" Islam in this case? I think that is already an attempt to mislead.

What we commonly see is liberals supporting religious freedoms as long as they are not inflicting harm on people or infiltrating government policy. That is not an endorsement of any particular religion, it's an endorsement of the right that people have to identify with a religion without being oppressed in some way.

I've never, in my entire life, heard some leftist say they wished Christianity would go away forever, but hoped Islam would grow. Never in my life, and I post on an internet forum where people say whacky things all the time. I've still never heard anything remotely approaching that sentiment.

I have, however, very often heard people completely twist the vague support "leftists" offer to religious minorities who are heavily ostracized to fit their phony narrative.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I don't do this type of stretching. "He's not entirely wrong if you ignore a key part of his argument," is a stretch that I'm not willing to make.

Promoting diversity of all sorts is not in any way the same as saying, "People condemn Christianity but promote Islam." It's a twisting of reality that goes so far that it becomes a fabrication. It's like a meme that falls apart under the slightest bit of scrutiny.



What does it even mean to "like" Islam in this case? I think that is already an attempt to mislead.

What we commonly see is liberals supporting religious freedoms as long as they are not inflicting harm on people or infiltrating government policy. That is not an endorsement of any particular religion, it's an endorsement of the right that people have to identify with a religion without being oppressed in some way.

I've never, in my entire life, heard some leftist say they wished Christianity would go away forever, but hoped Islam would grow. Never in my life, and I post on an internet forum where people say whacky things all the time. I've still never heard anything remotely approaching that sentiment.

I have, however, very often heard people completely twist the vague support "leftists" offer to religious minorities who are heavily ostracized to fit their phony narrative.

Well let's ask him if I was in the ball park of what he was talking about or if I'm stretching.

@ElKarlo ...?

 

[nac386]

Well let's ask him if I was in the ball park of what he was talking about or if I'm stretching.

@ElKarlo ...?

We can also simply read the English language, and look at what he already said, since that is the entire basis for the conversation we're having. Here is the post he was responding to, and his post:

Not to be an alarmist but this is how it starts in every country they eventually overwhelm.

afghanistan was a Buddhist country, Lebanon was Christian, Pakistan was Hindu....

If you think about it atheists on the left will probably facilitate the same thing happening in the west.

It's amazing the hatred and wanting to dustbin Christianity at the same time as promoting Islam. It's incredibly stupid.

So not only was he throwing out this concept of wanting to get rid of Christianity and promote Islam, but he was also saying it in response to a typical, "This is how Islam overwhelms countries and the left is going to facilitate it here."

Saying something entirely different, and going, "Is that what you meant to say?" does not change what he said. It's actually an annoying tactic to even attempt to do that. Plus you started your entire deflection with, "Well, of course nobody does what he's implying, however..." Lol.

 

[Islam Imamate]

We can also simply read the English language, and look at what he already said, since that is the entire basis for the conversation we're having. Here is the post he was responding to, and his post:






So not only was he throwing out this concept of wanting to get rid of Christianity and promote Islam, but he was also saying it in response to a typical, "This is how Islam overwhelms countries and the left is going to facilitate it here."

Saying something entirely different, and going, "Is that what you meant to say?" does not change what he said. It's actually an annoying tactic to even attempt to do that.

The first post is retarded but I stand by my post. Maybe ElKarlo wasn't referring to what I said but I think that's definitely a phenomenon and its probably what ElKarlo is reacting to even if he's misrepresenting or overreacting to it.

 

[Seso]

I've never, in my entire life, heard some leftist say they wished Christianity would go away forever, but hoped Islam would grow. Never in my life, and I post on an internet forum where people say whacky things all the time. I've still never heard anything remotely approaching that sentiment.

Imagine being that naive

 

[nac386]

The first post is retarded but I stand by my post. Maybe ElKarlo wasn't referring to what I said but I think that's definitely a phenomenon and its probably what ElKarlo is reacting to even if he's misrepresenting or overreacting to it.

I think that misrepresenting an issue and then overreacting to that misrepresentation is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think that misrepresenting an issue and then overreacting to that misrepresentation is a recipe for disaster.

Sure and I won't sign off on most of what ElKarlo said, as I implied in my first response to him I think he's really quick to join the pack of anti-Muslim posters. But I also try to go out of my way to find some truth in what others said instead of only digging into my trench. There's a time to man the trenches, and on the issue of Islam I'm not exactly shy in doing so, but if I can make a point that might create common ground I'll do that too.

 

[Bald1]

Lol.

No. I am an atheist Canadian and I have been there 3 times. I know a German woman who regularly smuggles bacon into the country. She was caught once. Nobody cared. Expats there pretty regularly brew their own beer.

Western expats are more or less untouchable. If you do manage to be such a cunt that someone wants you gone, you'll just be put on a plane out of the country. There is extensive economic development in the country and essentially all of it is being done by western expat expertise. Chopping your dick off for doing haram things is bad for business.

And they have Tim Horton's.

Staying in a segregated community catering to expats and tourists, apart from the local population isn't exactly what people have in mind when you say you lived somewhere. I've spent time on resorts as well.

 

[Bald1]

Well to be honest you're pretty ambivalent as to what that means and when I've asked you to clarify on occasion you usually don't and instead leave the thread. Like that one exchange we had were you seemed to be arguing that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to proselytize but when I framed it that way later claimed I was misrepresenting you. When asked to clarify you didn't.

And on top of that you seem to side with posters who are less ambivalent with their positions like posters in the China thread playing apologist for China's heavy handed tactics against Muslims. So yeah not really clear what you mean here and you've often described your idea of secularism as not unlike French style laicite which is pretty repressive in general especially historically but even today.

Spare me your bullshit. Like when you claimed I was antu-eu, and keep conflating my criticism of Islam as being anti-muslim.

Ask me a straight out question and I'll answer it as honestly as always. If you're going to keep twisting my words then go waste someone else's time.

 

[Bald1]

Calls to prayer are pointless though, everyone can set an alarm.

An alarm doesn't have the same brain washing effect as being reminded 5 times a day where your loyalties are.

 

[tonni]

An alarm doesn't have the same brain washing effect as being reminded 5 times a day where your loyalties are.

Everything loud is annoying imo

 

[Dober4]

We can also simply read the English language, and look at what he already said, since that is the entire basis for the conversation we're having. Here is the post he was responding to, and his post:






So not only was he throwing out this concept of wanting to get rid of Christianity and promote Islam, but he was also saying it in response to a typical, "This is how Islam overwhelms countries and the left is going to facilitate it here."

Saying something entirely different, and going, "Is that what you meant to say?" does not change what he said. It's actually an annoying tactic to even attempt to do that. Plus you started your entire deflection with, "Well, of course nobody does what he's implying, however..." Lol.

I’m not anti Muslim I just think on a broad scale their way of life doesn’t work in a western country. I’m also not necessarily saying they are intentionally trying to overwhelm a country. It’s simply what happens when their religion dictates everything they do in life.

Plus you absolutely can’t deny that the left would facilitate that happening.

 

[nac386]

I’m not anti Muslim I just think on a broad scale their way of life doesn’t work in a western country.

Anybody living in the United States has to adapt to the way of life in the United States. That's not exclusive to Muslims, it applies to everybody. Some people have to adapt more than others, based on what their existing customs are. You could argue that immigrating from some Muslim countries to the USA requires more adaptation, but they seem to being doing that just fine in the USA. The United States does not have an issues with the Muslim community not adhering to American norms. We seem to be assimilating Muslims just fine.

I’m also not necessarily saying they are intentionally trying to overwhelm a country.

Plus you absolutely can’t deny that the left would facilitate that happening.

See, I don't even know what this means. First, I need to know who "the left" is in this scenario, and I'd like to understand what you envision them doing to facilitate the takeover of this country by Muslims.

I can't even begin to wrap my mind around this concept. You can envision a scenario in which "the left" facilitates the takeover of our country by Muslims. Who? From where? Why? Lol.

 

[djacobox372]

An alarm doesn't have the same brain washing effect as being reminded 5 times a day where your loyalties are.

Why do you hate freedom?

People can have whatever religion they want in America. If you don't like the constitution, than move.

 

[Dober4]

Anybody living in the United States has to adapt to the way of life in the United States. That's not exclusive to Muslims, it applies to everybody. Some people have to adapt more than others, based on what their existing customs are. You could argue that immigrating from some Muslim countries to the USA requires more adaptation, but they seem to being doing that just fine in the USA. The United States does not have an issues with the Muslim community not adhering to American norms. We seem to be assimilating Muslims just fine.



See, I don't even know what this means. First, I need to know who "the left" is in this scenario, and I'd like to understand what you envision them doing to facilitate the takeover of this country by Muslims.

I can't even begin to wrap my mind around this concept. You can envision a scenario in which "the left" facilitates the takeover of our country by Muslims. Who? From where? Why? Lol.

The fact that Islam goes against everything they stand for.....feminism...treatment of LGBTQ people..and so on.

They are completely silent on this in fear of being racist you really can’t wrap your head around that hypocrisy?

 

[Bald1]

Why do you hate freedom?

People can have whatever religion they want in America. If you don't like the constitution, than move.

Derp derp derp.

*then
I don't live in the US
If I did, I'd be well within my rights to speak out against a religion that runs contrary to the constitution

 

[Bald1]

Everything loud is annoying imo

Sure. But tax exempt noise pollution 5 times a day is just rubbing salt in the wound.

 

[Prokofievian]

Staying in a segregated community catering to expats and tourists, apart from the local population isn't exactly what people have in mind when you say you lived somewhere. I've spent time on resorts as well.

Yeah, that's what happens. No expat ever goes into cities like Jeddah or Riyadh, and no Saudis work at places like JEC or KAUST. Because it's +++SUICIDE+++ to do so.

 

[Bald1]

Yeah, that's what happens. No expat ever goes into cities like Jeddah or Riyadh, and no Saudis work at places like JEC or KAUST. Because it's +++SUICIDE+++ to do so.

The point is going over your head or you're playing at willful ignorance.

Can you criticise the government? The religion? Can you marry a local? Can you enjoy the freedoms we take for granted here daily? Hell no.

No, I don't want to live in such a place. You're welcome to censoring yourself daily and living according to backwards bs. Been there done that. And while I was just a kid, that sort of thing goes against everything I stand for.