Social More left eating itself

[lfd0311]

@LangfordBarrow thought so

 

[Koro_11]

Hold on a second—don’t minimize what I said as “naming two Republicans.” I named 2 key people in the Trump’s administration. There were also Trump appointees like Darren Beattie and Jason Richwine. And if I was just naming white nationalist republicans (or those sympathetic to white nationalist causes) that we’ve seen recently, I could’ve named people like Steve King, Rep, Paul Gosar, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ron Johnson, and Trump himself. It’s quite clear that Kevin McCarthy is sympathetic to these causes, as are right wing media personalities like Tucker Carlson, who espouse these type of bullshit rhetoric to the millions that watch him.
And of course they’re trying to make these things law (or at least policy). Stephen Miller crafted Trump’s immigration policies. Former Homeland Security official Elizabeth Neumann raised concerns about how white nationalism influences Trump’s policies, and how Trump’s rhetoric incites white nationalist violence.
Bottom line: the Republican Party has a very serious infestation of white supremacists and those sympathetic to them, and it Trump’s administration that went all the way to the top, to Trump himself.

As a general rule, I find what people call “cancel culture” to be pretty tiresome. But let’s dispel this notion that this is wholly owned by the left. Remember when Trump tried to cancel Kaepernick, and Kaepernick couldn’t get signed? And how about when Kap appeared in that Nike ad, leading to conservative boycotts? Righties tried boycotting Target stores for being inclusive toward trans employees; they tried boycotting NASCAR of all things, when NASCAR banned confederate flags (but there’s no racism problem in the Republican Party, no sir ); Yale professor Brandy Lee was cancelled after criticizing Trump supporters and Alan Dershowitz. Ironically, it was Dershowitz, the author of a book called Cancel Culture: The Latest Attack on Free Speech and Due Process, who wrote to Yale and had her cancelled. You really can’t make this shit up. In fact, there’s probably no bigger driver of cancel culture recently than Trump himself: Kaepernick, Amazon, Apple, Harley Davidson, entire sports organizations like the NBA and NFL, a long list of political enemies (Preet Bahara, Bob Corker, Paul Krugman, Chris Cuomo)… it goes on and on. Republicans basically cancelled Liz Cheney, people like Ted Cruz have also called for cancelling various people and things. I could list these all day. This idea that conservatives are solely the victims of cancel culture (which they view as solely the property of the “oppressive” left is nonsense.

No, the real threat to people of color are the Republican legislators and recent presidential administration that sought normalize white nationalism and make it policy, as I described above. You think the idea of elites being a million fold richer than us flies under our radar? Who passes massive tax cuts for the wealthy every single time they’re in power? Who is slashing the corporate tax rate? Who is gutting regulations? It’s not us doing that. And it wasn’t that long ago that we stood up for average Americans and opposed the 1%—and in return found no support from conservatives, who accused us of “class warfare,” and accused us of supporting “redistribution of wealth.” Remember?
Republican economic policies have been geared towards the wealthy at the expense of the middle class for at least the last 40 years.

LOL, see this is where you lose me. How do you bunch Tucker Carlson in with white supremacy and Nazis lol.

This is where you guys lose the debate. I'm completely with you if there's someone actually talking about lynching black people, if some far right winger talked it in my presence I would call him an idiot and tell him to spare me the nonsense. But when you start labeling Tucker Carlson, or Jordan Peterson, nazis or supporters of white supremacy, or whatever else, you just lose me completely.

I haven't watched all of Tucker's content, but I've seen quite a bit of it to get the gist. The guy is your basic white conservative who speaks out against policies such as open borders, critical race theory, and other leftist lunacy. I have never once heard him say anything malicious towards anyone based on their race, or gender or whatever, he specifically ridicules silly ideas and I've never seen him attack anyone based on anything other than their views.

As for Trump, I'm not a Trumper so I'm not gonna defend all the crazy stuff he did, but I will say that when you're fighting a monster who doesn't play by the rules, the only way you can counter is with another monster who will disregard their rules as well. I don't like Trump, but I think he was a necessary evil that was needed to show just how stupid the entire system is, and how easy someone could get the keys to the nukes as long as they are popular with the public.

And your final point is probably the most absurd. You talk about race AND class as if they're the same thing and interchangable. I agree with you that it's about class, but according to the left someone like Lebron James is a victim whose word is gospel, and some poor white guy on welfare is an overprivileged oppressor who needs to shut up? It's a genius way to create a divide within the country and protect the 1% you speak of. If Lebron James or Meryl Streep go full woke and shame the rest of us, then they're off the hook for being a million fold richer than you because they virtue signaled and it's really the white working class that's the problem not the elites.

And the biggest issue for black people right now, are other black people. But I guess you don't care about statistic or the number of black men who kill each other every year, or the number of innocent black babies that are aborted.... no the left cares about guys like George Floyd, a dude who's been to jail a dozen times a held a pistol to a pregnant woman's stomach.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

@LangfordBarrow thought so

What did I think?

 

[lfd0311]

What did I think?

the total dodge of questions to the point of leaving the thread

 

[BjPenn2017]

That crazy black lady just had a meltdown because she disagreed with something Bill Maher said. Lol. Seems like a pretty mentally unstable person to me.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

That crazy black lady just had a meltdown because she disagreed with something Bill Maher said. Lol. Seems like a pretty mentally unstable person to me.

It sounded like team of writers took a long time to write that.

I also suspect this woman is unaware Bill said he is a house N recently.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

Ok, but don't we all have doubts about it?

Also, it still doesn't explain how it became right vs left? What happened, some republican said he doubts it, so the entire left camp decided that if a republican is questioning it that means they should fully endorse it?

It's true that the right are more vaccine hesitant because Trump sent confusing messages about the virus while also empowering conspiracy theorists But the left didnt decide to take it because Trump downplayed the virus. The left took it because almost all of the science and medical community, all world leaders , the media and the majority of politicians said we should get it. Who is the most credible person who says you should not get vaccinated?

 

[Koro_11]

It's true that the right are more vaccine hesitant because Trump sent confusing messages about the virus while also empowering conspiracy theorists But the left didnt decide to take it because Trump downplayed the virus. The left took it because almost all of the science and medical community, all world leaders , the media and the majority of politicians said we should get it. Who is the most credible person who says you should not get vaccinated?

OK, and what does the left say when the entire scientific community tells them that biology is a thing and that men are not women?

See what I mean, it’s the constant double standard. One minute it’s we believe in science, and the next minute it’s science is a racist construct or some bullshit like that?

 

[Steve-French]

Depends on the issue.

He is pro abortion right, pro gay marriage, pro environment, believes in separation of church and state, pro government programs to help those in need, pro universal healthcare , etc etc

He justifiably shits on Qanon and certain republicans every week.

He checks most boxes for liberal.

But he, like left Libertarian Bret Weinstein, is very pro free speech and anti woke culture.

Which seems to be the bar to call someone "alt right" these days

This. Anybody that thinks Bill Maher isn't a liberal has to be out of touch to the point of being retarded.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

OK, and what does the left say when the entire scientific community tells them that biology is a thing and that men are not women?

See what I mean, it’s the constant double standard. One minute it’s we believe in science, and the next minute it’s science is a racist construct or some bullshit like that?

Trans rights isnt a science issue it's a social matter and it's not nearly as agreed upon by the left as you might have heard.

 

[Koro_11]

Trans rights isnt a science issue it's a social matter and it's not nearly as agreed upon by the left as you might have heard.

What about critical race theoryt, and other such divisive nonsense?

And by the way I'm ok with someone being left of center so I don't want to crap on everyone who considers themselves on the left, but the woke left is just cancer.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

What about critical race theoryt, and other such divisive nonsense?

And by the way I'm ok with someone being left of center so I don't want to crap on everyone who considers themselves on the left, but the woke left is just cancer.

Who is the highest ranked person on the left who openly says they support crt? Does Maxine Waters or Corey Booker say that? I seriously don’t know I don’t hear it from people on the left that I listen to. I usually hear it coming from some professor or a guest speaker at a school or corporate event. Its not like people on the left that I know sit around talking about crt and trans rights and canceling people. Lol. It’s the guys on the right who talk about that stuff.

 

[Koro_11]

Who is the highest ranked person on the left who openly says they support crt? Does Maxine Waters or Corey Booker say that? I seriously don’t know I don’t hear it from people on the left that I listen to. I usually hear it coming from some professor or a guest speaker at a school or corporate event. Its not like people on the left that I know sit around talking about crt and trans rights and canceling people. Lol. It’s the guys on the right who talk about that stuff.

The guys on the right talk about it because the woke lunatics are pushing it on the general population, and pretending it's not a thing makes it difficult to take you seriously.

 

[skold]

OK, and what does the left say when the entire scientific community tells them that biology is a thing and that men are not women?

See what I mean, it’s the constant double standard. One minute it’s we believe in science, and the next minute it’s science is a racist construct or some bullshit like that?

Conservatives are obsessed with gender, it's all they talk about.

As a whole the left never claimed that trans women are identical to biological women. We just don't make it our mission to insult people with gender dysphoria for shits and giggles like the right does

 

[Koro_11]

Conservatives are obsessed with gender, it's all they talk about.

As a whole the left never claimed that trans women are identical to biological women. We just don't make it our mission to insult people with gender dysphoria for shits and giggles like the right does

What about men who identify as women entering girls change rooms with their dicks hanging out?

What about some big strong dude deciding he's a woman one day and competing in women's sports?

What about that girl that got fired for saying "men are not women"?

What about making compelled speech law when it comes to gender pronouns?

What has been the woke leftie stance on these issues?

 

[cooks1]

Maher is not really a left-wing guy even if he has entertained the idea of being one, in his own mind. The guy is a centrist, center-left at best, a liberal, and a rather old school one at that.

I'm not surprised to see that the left is trying to run its purity tests on all the moderate-minded Democrats, and try to make them appear "uncool" and "not radical enough" to the younger generations. This is all to their benefit if they want to be dictating the narrative going forward.

The old style of being a cynical, sharp-witted secularist/atheist, who embraces the scientific model, is also going out of style in the left-wing ranks. It's now all about passionately embracing ideas that don't necessarily pass the test when they're being critically evaluated. This is creating a pretty big rift between the people who came up during the era of the Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Noam Chomsky types of liberals and left-wingers, the individual thinkers, compared to the modern type of "anti-intellectuals"/social influencers who rely on collectivist thinking, peer pressure and mass movements of people rallying around a few slogans to support their ideology.

Agree with a lot of this. Most of Maher's actual views are pretty on point IMO. The problem is he is just a fucking douche. That's not really helpful.

 

[BFoe]

LOL, see this is where you lose me. How do you bunch Tucker Carlson in with white supremacy and Nazis lol.

This is where you guys lose the debate. I'm completely with you if there's someone actually talking about lynching black people, if some far right winger talked it in my presence I would call him an idiot and tell him to spare me the nonsense. But when you start labeling Tucker Carlson, or Jordan Peterson, nazis or supporters of white supremacy, or whatever else, you just lose me completely.

I haven't watched all of Tucker's content, but I've seen quite a bit of it to get the gist. The guy is your basic white conservative who speaks out against policies such as open borders, critical race theory, and other leftist lunacy. I have never once heard him say anything malicious towards anyone based on their race, or gender or whatever, he specifically ridicules silly ideas and I've never seen him attack anyone based on anything other than their views.

I said Tucker Carlson was sympathetic to their causes, and he is. Giving voice to white nationalist conspiracies like this most certainly qualifies as being sympathetic to their causes. In fact, white nationalist groups praised him for the remarks. Here’s a whole timeline of all the white nationalist and racist shit Carlson has said. So I’m not sure how I could lose you when I bring this up. Tucker has been giving voice and support to their views for years.

As for Trump, I'm not a Trumper so I'm not gonna defend all the crazy stuff he did, but I will say that when you're fighting a monster who doesn't play by the rules, the only way you can counter is with another monster who will disregard their rules as well. I don't like Trump, but I think he was a necessary evil that was needed to show just how stupid the entire system is, and how easy someone could get the keys to the nukes as long as they are popular with the public.

What rules were we not playing by? In the years just preceding Trump, Republicans had majorities in both houses of Congress and blocked anything and everything that Obama and Dems wanted to accomplish. They were the ones making the rules.
To your other point, what’s ironic is that the Electoral College is what is supposed to prevent crazy idiots who are popular with the public from getting elected, but in this instance it did the opposite.

And your final point is probably the most absurd. You talk about race AND class as if they're the same thing and interchangable. I agree with you that it's about class, but according to the left someone like Lebron James is a victim whose word is gospel, and some poor white guy on welfare is an overprivileged oppressor who needs to shut up? It's a genius way to create a divide within the country and protect the 1% you speak of. If Lebron James or Meryl Streep go full woke and shame the rest of us, then they're off the hook for being a million fold richer than you because they virtue signaled and it's really the white working class that's the problem not the elites.

-When did I say race and class were the same thing?
-The rest of this paragraph is just a bunch of right wing stereotypes about the left. Firstly, who is saying a poor white guy on welfare is overprivileged? Conservatives would be trying to cut his welfare, as they so often do. When Biden (for example) puts forth a tax plan to fund shit we need by raising taxes on the wealthy, how does that let Lebron James and Meryl Streep off the hook exactly? But while any attempt to make the ultra wealthy pay their fair share is oddly met by resistance from the right wing, you somehow believe that the issue of wealth disparity flies under our radar? Not true at all.

And the biggest issue for black people right now, are other black people. But I guess you don't care about statistic or the number of black men who kill each other every year, or the number of innocent black babies that are aborted.... no the left cares about guys like George Floyd, a dude who's been to jail a dozen times a held a pistol to a pregnant woman's stomach.

-You’re not looking at the bigger picture. It’s not “other black people” that are the problem, it’s a multi-faceted problem of which that is a result. Issues of poverty, education and healthcare disparities, housing discrimination, discrimination in the justice system, etc. And of course we care about it, the Right certainly doesn’t. You can’t even get them to confront the fact that it exists, for the most part.
-Of course I care about George Floyd. A police officer used excessive force to kill a completely restrained man in the street. I don’t give a shit whether we think that Floyd was a man of good character or not. I don’t give a shit what was on his criminal record. It’s irrelevant, and typical of the victim-shaming that Republicans so often engage in when the victims of police violence are black. In the United States, police do not get to kill people in that manner in the streets. It shouldn’t even be a divisive topic.

 

[Koro_11]

I said Tucker Carlson was sympathetic to their causes, and he is. Giving voice to white nationalist conspiracies like this most certainly qualifies as being sympathetic to their causes. In fact, white nationalist groups praised him for the remarks. Here’s a whole timeline of all the white nationalist and racist shit Carlson has said. So I’m not sure how I could lose you when I bring this up. Tucker has been giving voice and support to their views for years.

What rules were we not playing by? In the years just preceding Trump, Republicans had majorities in both houses of Congress and blocked anything and everything that Obama and Dems wanted to accomplish. They were the ones making the rules.
To your other point, what’s ironic is that the Electoral College is what is supposed to prevent crazy idiots who are popular with the public from getting elected, but in this instance it did the opposite.


-When did I say race and class were the same thing?
-The rest of this paragraph is just a bunch of right wing stereotypes about the left. Firstly, who is saying a poor white guy on welfare is overprivileged? Conservatives would be trying to cut his welfare, as they so often do. When Biden (for example) puts forth a tax plan to fund shit we need by raising taxes on the wealthy, how does that let Lebron James and Meryl Streep off the hook exactly? But while any attempt to make the ultra wealthy pay their fair share is oddly met by resistance from the right wing, you somehow believe that the issue of wealth disparity flies under our radar? Not true at all.

-You’re not looking at the bigger picture. It’s not “other black people” that are the problem, it’s a multi-faceted problem of which that is a result. Issues of poverty, education and healthcare disparities, housing discrimination, discrimination in the justice system, etc. And of course we care about it, the Right certainly doesn’t. You can’t even get them to confront the fact that it exists, for the most part.
-Of course I care about George Floyd. A police officer used excessive force to kill a completely restrained man in the street. I don’t give a shit whether we think that Floyd was a man of good character or not. I don’t give a shit what was on his criminal record. It’s irrelevant, and typical of the victim-shaming that Republicans so often engage in when the victims of police violence are black. In the United States, police do not get to kill people in that manner in the streets. It shouldn’t even be a divisive topic.

-The fact that he shares SOME of the same views, such as having a border, or having law and order or whatever, doesn't make him "sympathetic" to their cause. You're implying he's a racist because he agrees with some things those racist also believe in. If a racist believes that 2 + 2 = 4, am I sympathetic to his cause if I agree with him on that particular view?

-At some point the rules became that anything goes if it gets you votes. The dems created these oppression olympics, and started to shit on the white working class in rural America and labeling them racist, and whatever else. Trump saw what was going on and used it catapult himself into the oval office by speaking up for that group. He saw what the rules of politics had become, and he turned them to his advantage.

-I've got no problems with the ultra wealthy paying more taxes, but why is the narrative "black vs white", and not "the super rich vs the rest"? Why aren't these woke celebs who pretend to be in favor of the rich paying more taxes, not setting the example by voluntarily paying the percentage they feel would be fair? It's always just talk and virtue signalling, in the end they always find a loophole come out richer, while the working class gets screwed.

-When you make claims like "discrimination" and "discrimination in the justice system", you're making a claim without actually pointing to example that show this is actually happening at any significant scale. You want me to admit that what exists? Tribalism? Ok, of course it exist. Is there some discrimination because of it? Sure. What do you want to do about it? I'm a white guy, and if I walked into a local Chinese restaurant looking for work, and they dismissed me because they would rather have a Chinese employee working there, have I been discriminated? Should I make a big fuss about it, should this business owner be forced to hire someone who looks like me to look more inclusive? Or should he have a right to hire whoever he thinks is better suited for his business? As for big vague terms like "systemic racism", you need to point to a law that discriminates against whoever you think is discriminated against, you can't just fucken throw it out there and say "I can't show it to you but it's there."

-As for the George Floyd comments, I agree with you 100%, it should never have been a divisive topic. One idiot cop unnecessarily killed a guy by using excessive force and complete lack of judgement, and he should never have been a cop and he should certainly be punished accordingly for it. So I don't understand how this became a race issue, there was ZERO evidence that this same cop wouldn't have done the same or worse had Floyd been a white guy. So ya we can all agree that it was an example of negligence, police brutality, incompetence, and whatever else you wanna add, but where exactly did we all decide that this was a racism issue? It comes back to that "systemic racism" claim that no one can really point out, but they just know is there. We got no indication that Chauvin gave a shit whether this guy was black or white, but somehow we just know it was racially motivated, and even endorsed from the very top? Come on man.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Oh it'll eat itself eventually, there's only so far the pendulum can swing before it starts swinging back the other way. It's a load of nonsensical, meaningless bollocks.

 

[jefferz]

I know. It’s pretty nuts. The left really needs to start policing themselves more and not allowing people with extreme views a place at the table

Both parties have let the extremists take over.