Modern MMA striking > Prime K1 striking

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Grijswaarde, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Grijswaarde Black Belt

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    For the record: i am Dutch, was raised with kickboxing, trained under Ramon Dekkers at his Maeng Ho gym and know my shit as far as striking goes. Then again i also followed MMA for at least 20 years and have seen the evolution of striking there. As the title says, i firmly believe modern MMA striking > Prime K1 striking. Again, i was basically raised with the Dutch muay thai/kickboxing style so i know how it works.

    1 Gloves
    Probably the most important reason. People REALLY underestimate how much (kick)boxing gloves can help defend against striking. In K1 just holding both gloves in front of your head basically blocks all straights and with a bit of reaction time it blocks most hooks, overhands and even high kicks. In MMA, you REALLY have to aim for the incoming strikes to block them effeciently. (Kick)boxing gloves are kinda cheating in a way.

    2 Stance
    K1 rules allow you to stand up tall, basically avoid getting hit by uppercuts and knees to the face. This is ok since there are no takedowns allowed. Once that comes into the equation your stance has to adapt, you have to lean a bit more forward to be able to sprawl, thus making you more vulnerable to said strikes. In the 90's i've seen a LOT of great Dutch strikers being mauled by (mostly Eastern European) wrestlers in MMA fights since they did not change their normal kickboxing stance.

    3 Countering has become more important
    Obviously countering has always been a part of kickboxing, but the main focus in the Dutch style was ALWAYS to take the initiative and just attack. Overwhelm your opponent and he will break. That used to work in the 90's, but nowadays MMA striking is way more focused on countering. Best example was Saki in his last fight i guess... you just get KO'd period.

    4 Smarter training
    In Holland the mentality in the 90's was: get the shit beaten out of you in training, it will harden you and fights become easier. Just rounds of TAKING lowkicks, enduring liver shots (multiple ones in a row), kicking wooden planks with the shin without breaking them to harden the bones, endure mental stress (a trainer bullying you) to be able to endure shit etc. We now know that does not work. MMA training has become smart, avoids injuries and is well thought out to be most efficient as possible.

    5 More fighters
    Back in the 90's, Dutch fighters made up about 80% of the top kickboxers in the world. We only have 16 million inhabitants so no way Dutch genes are so dominant they rule all fighting in the world. And they don't nowadays. Aerts, Hoost, Schilt etc... all legends... but they have nothing to offer against modern day strikers who are just way more intelligent and efficient.

    K1 had an awesome era without a doubt. But we seriously have to stop with the K1-level bullshit. Modern day MMA striking > Prime K1 striking by far. Again coming from someone who was raised with it.
     
  2. StopDucking Ronda Rousey hater

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    Prime Buakaw and prime Petrosyan would finish any UFC 155er under a round in a striking match.



     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  3. GOATER Banned Banned

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    Fact is if it was a street fight without gloves or any rules except u cant go to the ground.

    MMAers and Boxers would kill K1 fighters in stand up.
     
  4. Thunderchild Platinum Nation Belt

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    What are you measuring each against? Do you mean mma striking is generally more effective in a real life situation? Otherwise each style is more effective within its own respective sport. Apples and oranges.
     
  5. Grijswaarde Black Belt

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    I am talking about striking in a mma fight. Buakaw and Petrosyan would get mauled.
     
  6. Grijswaarde Black Belt

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    Yes fair enough. But that is What i mean.
     
  7. Bubblun Brown Belt

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    You have a point, Overeem said the same thing before facing Struve, another dutch kickboxer.

    “I know he’s training on it. I know that he tries to, but the Dutch kickboxing in my opinion, respectfully, is outdated. It’s not used for MMA,” Overeem said. “I know because I am the K-1 2010 Grand Prix champion. MMA is just different.”
     
  8. Thunderchild Platinum Nation Belt

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    Then, I would agree, and will ironically call your OP a K-1 level post. ;)
     
  9. Which Doctor The ATT Heel Stable/Faction Belt

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    OR...kickboxing just ain't shit any more so there hasn't been the influx of bodies/talent like there used to be.

    Kickboxing gyms used to be the place to go. That was 30 years ago.

    Stagnant shit.
     
  10. StopDucking Ronda Rousey hater

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    They would get outgrappled. That's not MMA striking vs K1 striking, that's MMA grappling vs K1 striking.
     
  11. Grijswaarde Black Belt

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    Fair enough. Still think they would have to adapt to at least stance and gloves, and it will change everything.
     
  12. TheScorpionDude Get over here! ~~~~~~~~~~~~==>

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    This 100%.

    Also, NFL tackles >>>> NBA ball dribbling. I'd like to see that wimp Lebron keep the ball in his hands while a fucking 300 pound all muscles NFL player embeds him in the basketball court.
     
  13. Grijswaarde Black Belt

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    I like the sarcasm... since it has a good point. Fair enough again.
     
  14. superpunch Gold Belt

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    I'm not Dutch and I disagree with this. Dutch genes ARE that dominant.

    Your average height nationwide is 6'2. It's 6'4 in some parts of the country. Start looking at heights like 6'4, 6'5, etc and you have like 10% of your population being taller than 99.99% of the world's population. Being 6'5, 6'6, 6'10, etc is RARE in the rest of the world.

    Let me go by American height stats to do some math. There is one successful 5'9" man at HW. There is one successful 7' foot man at HW. There are 174,000 times more 5'9" men than there are 7' men. That means that just being 7' gave Struve the advantage over 173,999 5'9" men. Big muscles, explosiveness, great cardio, great chin, great power......... Just being 7' instead of 5'9" was more important those qualities present in any one person in a group of 174,000 people.

    If Dutch are falling off then it's because you're training wrong or something.
     
  15. ThePunisher Forum vigilante

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    Tennis serves > backstroke
     
  16. Vil7 Silver Belt

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    I don't know I think heavyweight kickboxing was a lot better overall in the early 2000's. K-1 was stacked with talent back then when they had$ & were paying fighters pretty well.
     
  17. TheScorpionDude Get over here! ~~~~~~~~~~~~==>

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    You sir, have conducted yourself like a gentleman. I salute you.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Grijswaarde Black Belt

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    Then explain how half of our legends have Surinam (Ghanese in origin most of them) roots?

    But thanks i guess.
     
  19. superpunch Gold Belt

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    Actually one thing I've wondered is, is Dutch height due to genes or diet? How tall are your second/ third generation immigrants that were raised on Dutch diets? Other populations worldwide average ~5" shorter, so if there's a 5+" average difference among different ethnic groups then I think you'd know about it as it would be obvious.
    I've always been curious about that.
     
  20. ArtemV Gold Belt

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    I agree, but nowadays there are more styles under K1/Glory rules and the "prime" K1 strikers are no longer at HW, and have moved down to FW, LW and WW to an extent. Guys like Sitthichai, Petrosyan (even now), Levin, Adesanya and Petch, etc, don't rely on gloves for protection, they move their head, use good footwork and even work in the clinch rather than expect the ref to separate (more-so Thais).

    MMA produces more knockout because of the gloves, but to say their technique, speed, timing and power matches those who fight purely in K1 rules is incorrect imo. Even with the bigger gloves, it takes technique and space to get passed this defense, even more in boxing.

    But them in a striking situation in K1 max?? I forgot the name of the promotion (but, it is Muay Thai with MMA gloves) and see who wins. I bet my money would be on "prime K1" strikers.
     

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