MMA vs WMMA comparison

[SG123]

Yes you did. I said Nunes had good competition and you were like they dont compare to men. You dont have to compare Cejudo to Ngannou to realize he's good.

This is a bit tedious. This thread is literally about how badly the women compare to men in all aspects of the sport. So of course that distinction matters.

And in any case fighting 3 people in your entire career that can be regarded as good compeition doesn’t define someone as having fought good competition overall

 

[SG123]

As with all other sports that have been discussed the benchmark for Nunes would be world class 16/17 year old boys. There will be plenty of Mars out there 18 and even a bit younger that would beat her in a fight.

I still haven’t seen anyone make a case for why MMA would be the one exception. Some people have even mentioned in this thread that they think Nunes would beat men in the top 10.

 

[johnmangala]

This is a bit tedious. This thread is literally about how badly the women compare to men in all aspects of the sport. So of course that distinction matters.

And in any case fighting 3 people in your entire career that can be regarded as good compeition doesn’t define someone as having fought good competition overall

So Cejudo isnt good because he can't beat Ngannou?

 

[SG123]

So Cejudo isnt good because he can't beat Ngannou?

Not at all. Cejudo is P4P great. He’s also fought great fighters. And if you controlled for his size while maintaining his skillset (as you do p4p) he would be great in other weight divisions.

The women aren’t good because even if they were men they simply wouldn’t be in the UFC. The level is too low even if you control for size and gender.

 

[johnmangala]

Not at all. Cejudo is P4P great. He’s also fought great fighters. And if you controlled for his size while maintaining his skillset (as you do p4p) he would be great in other weight divisions.

The women aren’t good because even if they were men they simply wouldn’t be in the UFC. The level is too low even if you control for size and gender.

If Nunes was a man he'd be wrecking shop what are you talking about. So only Cejudo can scale his skills but women cant?

 

[SG123]

If Nunes was a man he'd be wrecking shop what are you talking about. So only Cejudo can scale his skills but women cant?

Based on what? She uses her strength and athleticism to bully vastly inferior opponents for the most part. She wouldn’t have any of those advantages as a man.

Nunes would lose to plenty of under 18 males, that’s how big the gulf is

 

[johnmangala]

Based on what? She uses her strength and athleticism to bully vastly inferior opponents for the most part. She wouldn’t have any of those advantages as a man.

Nunes would lose to plenty of under 18 males

You're just grandstanding now.

 

[mime]

no groin shots in wmma....oh wait nevermind

 

[SG123]

You're just grandstanding now.

I’m really not. That is what we see in every sport. The best women in the world are beaten by boys 15/16/17. That’s all sports where we have evidence.

And women, for the most part are also unable to compete where the discipline is purely technical or mental.

So what you’re saying seems to just be speculation with nothing to support it. I don’t see how I’m the one grandstanding

 

[johnmangala]

I’m really not. That is what we see in every sport. The best women in the world are beaten by boys 15/16/17. That’s all sports where we have evidence.

And women, for the most part are also unable to compete where the discipline is purely technical or mental.

So what you’re saying seems to just be speculation with nothing to support it. I don’t see how I’m the one grandstanding

You’re grandstanding and gatekeeping men’s division. I don’t even like most of WMMA, but I realize it’s here to stay. I can also recognize talent. The lower levels of WMMA is awful, but the high levels is great. Guess what else is like that? Men’s divisions.

WMMA is a new part of a new sport. No shit it’s inferior. But given a few years people will come in seeing the success of Nunes etc and the level will rise. It already happened with Ronda. WMMA before Ronda and after are different levels. Surely you can appreciate the evolution of the sport.

 

[SG123]

This discussion is a good example of how much more powerful narrative is than data. You’re told Nunes & Co would be competitive with men, so you believe it.

There isn’t a shred of evidence across any sport to suggest that’s the case. Yet you still can’t be convinced otherwise

 

[SG123]

You’re grandstanding and gatekeeping men’s division. I don’t even like most of WMMA, but I realize it’s here to stay. I can also recognize talent. The lower levels of WMMA is awful, but the high levels is great. Guess what else is like that? Men’s divisions.

WMMA is a new part of a new sport. No shit it’s inferior. But given a few years people will come in seeing the success of Nunes etc and the level will rise. It already happened with Ronda. WMMA before Ronda and after are different levels. Surely you can appreciate the evolution of the sport.

It’s strange seeing someone throw around gatekeeing and grandstanding to desperately avoid the discussion. Couple that with not being able to justify your point of view in any credible way, you sound pretty vapid

Let’s leave it there

 

[johnmangala]

It’s strange seeing someone throw around gatekeeing and grandstanding to desperately avoid the discussion. It makes you sound completely vapid.

Let’s leave it there

Nice way to avoid what followed.. hypocritical don't you think. Of course I was right when I said you dont address points just spew insults.

 

[SG123]

Nice way to avoid what followed.. hypocritical don't you think. Of course I was right when I said you dont address points just spew insults.

What followed was you agreeing with me. You’re all over the place. Yes WMMA is completely inferior, that’s my point..... But there’s a group of people out there that feel the need to lie about it

Women’s MMA May well improve, but it will never close the gap

 

[johnmangala]

What followed was you agreeing with me. You’re all over the place. Yes WMMA is completely inferior, that’s my point..... But there’s a group of people out there that feel the need to lie about it

Women’s MMA May well improve, but it will never close the gap

It's not completely inferior tho, the high levels are decent. Which is the same for men.

Cejudo can never close the gap between him and Ngannou. That doesnt discredit him nor does it discredit Nunes.

 

[SG123]

It's not completely inferior tho, the high levels are decent. Which is the same for men.

Cejudo can never close the gap between him and Ngannou. That doesnt discredit him nor does it discredit Nunes.

In what way is it not inferior? We can say Cejudo is better than Ngannou in numerous different facets of MMA (wrestling, striking technique, cardio, etc). You can’t say the same for any facets of the women’s sport.

 

[johnmangala]

In what way is it not inferior? We can say Cejudo is better than Ngannou in numerous different facets of MMA (wrestling, striking technique, cardio, etc). You can’t say the same for any facets of the women’s sport.

But he wouldn't beat Ngannou in a fight so what does it matter using your logic.

 

[SG123]

But he wouldn't beat Ngannou in a fight so what does it matter using your logic.

Again, that isn’t my logic at all. Can you quote a single sentence where I’ve said something to that effect? You make things up on my behalf and argue with what you’ve just made up.

 

[johnmangala]

It is your logic, you said Cejudos skills translate p4p but Nunes wouldn't even be in the UFC if she were a man. So Cejudo can lose to Ngannou and it's okay but women can't be graded on their own curve.

 

[Dragonseeker]

In what way is it not inferior? We can say Cejudo is better than Ngannou in numerous different facets of MMA (wrestling, striking technique, cardio, etc). You can’t say the same for any facets of the women’s sport.

What? Ngannou is a good powerful puncher. That it.

I alot of the top ladies have better technique than Ngannou. You can do a poll and ask 100 MMA coaches who has better technique, Zhang or Ngannou. If Tatiana Suarez is a heavyweight man, she would wrestle him into oblivion.