MMA NEEDS A "standing 8 count" ? FEDOR vs Bader

[-guerilla-]

Never a good idea to ask a fighter if he wants to continue. Most would want to continue even if he had an eye gouged out and an arm ripped off. Sometimes the ref, doc and/or the fighter's corner need to protect a fighter from himself.

See Enson Inoue vs Igor Vovchanchyn. Inoue couldn't even stand after the first round with Vovnchanchyn, but he was screaming that he wanted to continue.

An excellent point boy it's refreshing to have an intelligent objective reply to this thread

I would suggest this is when the referees experience comes into play a serious season referee will assess the fighter by his response

A good referee isn't paying as much attention to what he says but how he says it

If the injured fighter says yes puts his thumbs up and his hands up but is wobbly and barely coherent the referee is going to stop the fight

 

[-guerilla-]

The difference here is that Kongo got rocked, but was still being active turning over trying to grab Barry and getting up.

Fedor got rocked, didn't look like he was trying to defend himself and ate another big shot with more shots on the ground.

Fedor got rocked for sure but his hands never went limp both his hands were up in a defensive position when the referee dove in

Cheick Kongo could have been stopped in the exact same way.

All the referee had to do was dive on him right after he fell just like fedor

It looks really bad cuz fedor fell backwards

had he fell Fallen forwards onto all fours and taken one more shot (like fedor /mir)
perhaps the referee would have let him continue a bit longer

You must watch the Mir and Bader fights back to back a few times and count the punches...same refs same promotion big difference

 

[-guerilla-]

please list more than 1 example

 

[-guerilla-]

seems like boxing fatalities have been going UP SINCE they stopped using the standing 8 count

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_due_to_injuries_sustained_in_boxing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_eight_count

 

[BFoe]

seems like boxing fatalities have been going UP SINCE they stopped using the standing 8 count

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_due_to_injuries_sustained_in_boxing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_eight_count

I definitely don’t want a standing 8 count. But I do feel like MMA fights in the U.S. have gotten quick on the stoppages. I don’t want to sound like a crying Fedor fanboy; I don’t think it was a robbery or anything. But was Fedor out, like he was in the Mitrione fight? It didn’t look that way to me. Was he intelligently defending? We don’t really know, because he wasn’t given the opportunity to defend. Just getting dropped—even dropped hard—is not the criteria for a stoppage.

 

[-guerilla-]

I definitely don’t want a standing 8 count. But I do feel like MMA fights in the U.S. have gotten quick on the stoppages. I don’t want to sound like a crying Fedor fanboy; I don’t think it was a robbery or anything. But was Fedor out, like he was in the Mitrione fight? It didn’t look that way to me. Was he intelligently defending? We don’t really know, because he wasn’t given the opportunity to defend. Just getting dropped—even dropped hard—is not the criteria for a stoppage.

Whats your concern with a monetary halt of the action to access a fighters condition??

Elimination of the protection count Certainly hasent improved BOXINGS safety record!!

MUAYTHAI is the only fight sport i know of that still uses it

The bader stoppage was pure trash....The Henderson stopage was arguable but the mitrione home stoppage was 100% legit

I've always liked fador but thought he was Reckless and far too aggressive...I knew that style would get him in big trouble in American MMA

That hard-charging fight style is only permissible in Japan... modern sissy safe space America simply won't allow you to fight through adversity anymore and it shows

No wonder Americans are so bad at MMA...they never get a chance to come back

Its a knock down contest

 

[CountOfSoCal]

Fedor fans are delusional. It's hysterical.

 

[-guerilla-]

Fedor fans are delusional. It's hysterical.

There have been LOTS of bad stoppages besides Fedor / Bader



Just because you crapped your pants when you saw him get hit doesn't mean he was really out

Usually Fanboys have a difficult time understanding the difference between a knockdown and a knockout

 

[BFoe]

Whats your concern with a monetary halt of the action to access a fighters condition??

Elimination of the protection count Certainly hasent improved BOXINGS safety record!!

MUAYTHAI is the only fight sport i know of that still uses it

The bader stoppage was pure trash....The Henderson stopage was arguable but the mitrione home stoppage was 100% legit

I've always liked fador but thought he was Reckless and far too aggressive...I knew that style would get him in big trouble in American MMA

That hard-charging fight style is only permissible in Japan... modern sissy safe space America simply won't allow you to fight through adversity anymore and it shows

No wonder Americans are so bad at MMA...they never get a chance to come back

Its a knock down contest

I’m concerned that a standing 8 count could give someone just enough time to recover to be sent out there to be punished further. One thing I like about MMA, safety-wise, is that if a fighter is out of it or not intelligently defending, the fight is over.
I don’t think the Hendo stoppage was arguable. Fedor faceplanted, had to be helped up afterwards, and was rubber-legged big time. Stitch told a story that when he was cleaning Fedor up afterwards, Fedor asked him what happened. So I think he was out.
I don’t even think the Bader stoppage was trash, but I would’ve liked a second or two to see if Fedor could intelligently defend. I didn’t see a good camera angle showing that he was out, and he got to his feet pretty quickly afterwards and didn’t seem all that wobbly or out of it to me.

 

[-guerilla-]

I’m concerned that a standing 8 count could give someone just enough time to recover to be sent out there to be punished further. One thing I like about MMA, safety-wise, is that if a fighter is out of it or not intelligently defending, the fight is over.
I don’t think the Hendo stoppage was arguable. Fedor faceplanted, had to be helped up afterwards, and was rubber-legged big time. Stitch told a story that when he was cleaning Fedor up afterwards, Fedor asked him what happened. So I think he was out.
I don’t even think the Bader stoppage was trash, but I would’ve liked a second or two to see if Fedor could intelligently defend. I didn’t see a good camera angle showing that he was out, and he got to his feet pretty quickly afterwards and didn’t seem all that wobbly or out of it to me.

his hands and knees were up vs bader at the moment the ref jumped in

Fedor was 100% rocked after hendo hit him then faceplanted... then +2 illegal strike back of head and fedor was rolling over to get to his back [intelligent defense]

mitrione was able to ko him as his legs and arms went limp B4 the ref jumped in



a protection count WOULD give the fighter a few seconds to get their "wits" back and this has DEFINITELY been poorly applied and produced a protracted beating

however its usually a good tool for a ref to have IMO

seems to work great in MUAYTHAI and boxing has had MORE INJURIES SINCE they stopped using it [seems to me]

the data is in

 

[Zanmato]

If you are in your 40s and getting knocked out by jabs regularly, the last thing you need is the chance to get up and take another beating

 

[BFoe]

his hands and knees were up vs bader at the moment the ref jumped in

Fedor was 100% rocked after hendo hit him then faceplanted... then +2 illegal strike back of head and fedor was rolling over to get to his back [intelligent defense]

mitrione was able to ko him as his legs and arms went limp B4 the ref jumped in



a protection count WOULD give the fighter a few seconds to get their "wits" back and this has DEFINITELY been poorly applied and produced a protracted beating

however its usually a good tool for a ref to have IMO

seems to work great in MUAYTHAI and boxing has had MORE INJURIES SINCE they stopped using it [seems to me]

the data is in

Simply rolling onto your back doesn’t equal intelligent defense. If you faceplant limply like that, the ref is gonna stop it. I agree that the shots Hendo threw after that were to the back of the head, but that wasn’t relevant to the stoppage. I’m a huge Fedor fan, and believe me, I didn’t send Herb Dean a Christmas card for several years after that. But I think it was a fair stoppage. Fedor seemed pretty messed up afterwards as well.

You pointed something else out about the standing 8 count, which is the potential for abuse. while I see where you’re coming from, it just doesn’t make sense to add it to the Unified Rules IMO.

 

[-guerilla-]

If you are in your 40s and getting knocked out by jabs regularly, the last thing you need is the chance to get up and take another beating

That was not a jab...and it did not "knock" him out...it knocked him down

He never went limp therefor he was never out

He WAS out vs mitrione

He was out for a moment vs hendo

Its called a "flash" knockdown

Amybody involved with striking sports knows what that is

Age is irrelevant...its just an excuse

 

[-guerilla-]

Simply rolling onto your back doesn’t equal intelligent defense. If you faceplant limply like that, the ref is gonna stop it. I agree that the shots Hendo threw after that were to the back of the head, but that wasn’t relevant to the stoppage. I’m a huge Fedor fan, and believe me, I didn’t send Herb Dean a Christmas card for several years after that. But I think it was a fair stoppage. Fedor seemed pretty messed up afterwards as well.

You pointed something else out about the standing 8 count, which is the potential for abuse. while I see where you’re coming from, it just doesn’t make sense to add it to the Unified Rules IMO.

He rolled on his back with his hands and knees up

Refs panic sometimes

Its natural...ive been there

American are not as good at MMA then the rest of the world BECAUSE of our safespace lawsuit happy culture in addition to the for profit domination of the martial arts industry and its subsequent lack of publc facility support

By not allowing the ref to hault the action and check on the welfare of an athlete they force the kneejerk stoppages we see

In pride Fedors fights were not stopped because of a simple knock down by either athlete and that's why his fighting style and he himself is not seen as often in the UFC and why Americas results are substandard when compared to countries that offer a more realistic training opportunity like Japan, Russia and Brazil

 

[SUPERPREDAT0R]

Consider it to the finals I aGREE too fuckin early also fedor was goin for leg

 

[Danespina]

They just need to let a guy on the ground get hit a few times and see how they react.

 

[Yaboy Lex]

Fedor is waaaaay past fighting shape. It's sad. But yeah this is a shit idea. 8 counts are why boxers get brain damage and die you fuck